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Josseli Barnica grieved the news as she lay in a Houston hospital bed on Sept. 3, 2021: The sibling she’d dreamt of giving her daughter would not survive this pregnancy.

The fetus was on the verge of coming out, its head pressed against her dilated cervix; she was 17 weeks pregnant and a miscarriage was “in progress,” doctors noted in hospital records. At that point, they should have offered to speed up the delivery or empty her uterus to stave off a deadly infection, more than a dozen medical experts told ProPublica.

But when Barnica’s husband rushed to her side from his job on a construction site, she relayed what she said the medical team had told her: “They had to wait until there was no heartbeat,” he told ProPublica in Spanish. “It would be a crime to give her an abortion.”

For 40 hours, the anguished 28-year-old mother prayed for doctors to help her get home to her daughter; all the while, her uterus remained exposed to bacteria.

Three days after she delivered, Barnica died of an infection.

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[-] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Leave it to reactionaries to confuse healthcare with genocide.

I've already told you that autonomous people should get to choose what to do with their bodies. That's clearly not a value that you hold, and want to give a fetus extra rights above and beyond the person upon whose body they depend.

You wouldn't need to give a reason to disconnect the person attached to you by the kidney; it's your body to decide to share or not.

You can try to reframe the issue, but the facts are clear.

[-] the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Tell me, how is killing innocent people healthcare? If a human being isn't a person, then what is? If killing innocent people isn't wrong, then why do we outlaw murder?

So born babies aren't people either? They're not very autonomous. Nor are comatose people.

You're reframing the issue to justify killing millions of people every year. Why? It's not like those lives magically appear in a faraway land on earth once they're ended in the United States.

[-] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Do you think you should need to get permission to disconnect from the kidney machine? Or do you think that it's your choice to share your body or not?

I know why you keep avoiding this question: it shows that you think your bodily autonomy is more important than a woman's.

You can try to reframe the issue, but the facts are clear.

[-] the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

It's a good thing we have dialysis machines so this entire argument is moot, along with organ donations. If the entire premise of the argument is nonsensical, then so would any response to it. Millions of people dying every year is a thing that really happens. I take it you won't deny they're people, but somehow it's okay to kill them?

Also. "reactionary" was a title used by people like Mao Zedong to justify persecuting and killing innocent people, so that's a little clue about how you really feel on the topic of murder.

[-] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Avoiding the question is it's own cowardly answer.

Reactionaries always try to reframe things exactly backwards.

[-] the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I should think it's more cowardly to insult people without explaining why they're wrong. Are you so deep in you own pro-genocide propaganda that you can't even articulate why murder is wrong? And if it's so cowardly to not respond, then why are you not responding to my questions? Are you calling yourself a coward? If so, I mean, you said it, not me.

I have just as much ground to call you a reactionary over your reframing of genocide as "healthcare," which is apparently such an obvious position that you don't know how to defend it.

[-] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I have explained it; remember how you bravely avoided the question that would unequivocally prove your "principle" wrong?

And reactionary has a meaning; it's very reactionary of you to try and redefine it exactly backwards.

You can try to reframe it, but the facts are clear.

[-] the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

So not answering a meaningless and irrelevant question about ethics is less cowardly than not being able to explain why murder is wrong or why some human beings are not people? If I brought up a question about using magic to kill gnomes, would you take it seriously?

In political science, a reactionary or a reactionist is a person who holds political views that favor a return to the status quo ante—the previous political state of society—which the person believes possessed positive characteristics that are absent from contemporary society.

Roe v. Wade was the status quo for decades, and it sounds like you want to return to it. Therefore, if I'm a reactionary, you're a reactionary too.

Oh, and how did Mao feel about alleged "reactionaries"?

All were publicly humiliated and detained for varying periods, sometimes under very harsh conditions; many were beaten and tortured, and not a few were killed or driven to suicide.

Oh... I certainly don't want that for anyone.

[-] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Your surface-level understanding of political philosophy is matched only by your amateur legal credentials.

Gotta say: it's hilarious how far you've gone to avoid answering a simple question that would expose the stupidity of your argument. So brave.

Now go away, you're boring and predictable.

[-] the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Your eagerness to condemn others for not wanting millions of innocent people to die without being able to articulate why killing everyone else is wrong is really quite telling. As is your use of political labels used by dictators to justify killing innocent people​.

[-] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Go away, you're boring and predictable.

[-] the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you think human life is so worthless, or you're so intent on debating questions as relevant as "should gnomes be allowed to access the adamantium deposits if all they'll do is make jewelry with it," then alright. Have a good day.

[-] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Go away, you're boring and predictable.

this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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