540

OK, its just a deer, but the future is clear. These things are going to start kill people left and right.

How many kids is Elon going to kill before we shut him down? Whats the number of children we're going to allow Elon to murder every year?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Hubi@feddit.org 192 points 19 hours ago

The poster, who pays Tesla CEO Elon Musk for a subscription to the increasingly far-right social media site, claimed that the FSD software “works awesome” and that a deer in the road is an “edge case.” One might argue that edge cases are actually very important parts of any claimed autonomy suite, given how drivers check out when they feel the car is doing the work, but this owner remains “insanely grateful” to Tesla regardless.

How are these people always such pathetic suckers.

[-] nialv7@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

Yeah this Tesla owner is dumb. wdym "we just need to train the AI to know what deer butts look like"? Tesla had radar and sonar, it didn't need to know what a deer's butt looks like because radar would've told it something was there! But they took it away because Musk had the genius idea of only using cameras for whatever reason.

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 5 points 9 hours ago

I’d go even farther and say most driving is an edge case. I used 30 day trial of full self-driving and the results were eye opening. Not how it did: it was pretty much as expected, but looking at where it went wrong.

Full self driving did very well in “normal” cases, but I never realized just how much of driving was an “edge” case. Lane markers faded? No road edge but the ditch? Construction? Pothole? Debris? Other car does something they shouldn’t have? Traffic lights not aligned in front of you so it’s not clear what lane? Intersection not aligned so you can’t just go straight across? People intruding? Contradictory signs? Signs covered by tree branches? No sight line when turning?

After that experiment, it seems like “edge” cases are more common than “normal” cases when driving. Humans just handle it without thinking about it, but the car needs more work here

[-] teft@lemmy.world 120 points 19 hours ago

I grew up in Maine. Deer in the road isn’t an edge case there. It’s more like a nightly occurrence.

[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 45 points 19 hours ago

Same in Kansas. Was in a car that hit one in the 80s and see them often enough that I had to avoid one that was crossing a busy interstste highway last week.

Deer are the opposite of an edge case in the majority of the US.

[-] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 18 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Putting these valid points aside we're also all just taking for granted that the software would have properly identified a human under the same circumstances..... This could very easily have been a much more chilling outcome

[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 13 points 17 hours ago

I'm not taking that for granted. If it can't tell a solid object os in the road, I would guess that would be true for a human that is balled up or facing away as well.

[-] Snowpix@lemmy.ca 3 points 13 hours ago

It's no different in Southern Ontario where I live. Saw a semi truck plow into one, it really wasn't pretty. Another left a huge dent on my mom's car when she hit one driving at night.

[-] Granite@lemmy.world 3 points 16 hours ago

Same, hit one just south of Lyndon at night.

[-] TheLowestStone@lemmy.world 7 points 17 hours ago

I drove through rural Arkansas at sundown once. I've never seen so many deer in my life.

[-] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 31 points 18 hours ago

Being a run of the mill fascist (rather than those in power) is actually an incredibly submissive position, they just want strong daddies to take care of them and make the bad people go away. It takes courage to be a "snowflake liberal" by comparison

[-] bluGill@fedia.io 22 points 19 hours ago

Deer on the road is an edge case that humans cannot handle well. In general every option other than hitting the deer is overall worse - which is why most insurance companies won't increase your rates if you hit a deer and file a claim for repairs.

The only way to not hit/kill hundreds of deer (thousands? I don't know the number) every year is to reduce rural speed limits to unreasonably slow speeds. Deer jump out of dark places right in front of cars all the time - the only option to avoid it that might work is either drive in the other lanes (which sometimes means into an oncoming car), or into the ditch (you have no clue what might be there - if you are lucky the car just rolls, but there could be large rocks or strong fence posts and the car stops instantly. Note that this all happens fast, you can't think you only get to react. Drivers in rural areas are taught to hit the brakes and maintain their lane.

[-] dhork@lemmy.world 51 points 19 hours ago

Drivers in rural areas are taught to hit the brakes and maintain their lane.

Which the Tesla didn't do. It plowed full speed into the deer, which arguably made the collision much much worse than it could have been. I doubt the thing was programmed to maintain speed into a deer. The more likely alternative is that the FSD couldn't tell there was a deer there in the first place.

[-] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 6 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

Braking dips the hood making it easier for the deer to go into the windshield. You should actually speed up right before hitting to make your hood go up and make it hopefully go under or better stay in the grill.

[-] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 32 points 19 hours ago

Doesn't this all depend on the height of your car and the condition of your shocks? Doesn't seem like a hard and fast rule. Also, you're assuming rear wheel drive. FWD does not "raise the hood" like you're playing Cruising USA.

[-] troed@fedia.io 20 points 18 hours ago

Please show me that guideline, anywhere.

/Swede living in the deer countryside

[-] NABDad@lemmy.world 16 points 16 hours ago

Wear gloves when they hand you that guideline because they might be pulling it out of their ass.

[-] dhork@lemmy.world 20 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

Maybe, but it's still the case that slowing down will impart less energy to the collision. Let up on the brake before impact if you want, but you should have been braking once you first saw the deer in the road.

Sometimes those fuckers just jump out at you at the last minute. They're not smart. But if you click the link, this one was right in the middle of the road, with that "Deer in the headlights" look. There was plenty of time to slow down before impact.

[-] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

Conditions matter and your reaction should always be for the worst possible scenario (moose and snow), braking removes your ability to maneuver as well, and locking the brakes up which will almost always happen when you panic break, would be the worst scenario. If there’s snow or rain, braking again is right out.

If it jumps out and you can’t do anything but brake, you shouldn’t do that, you grip the wheel and maintain speed, and if you can punch the gas for the hood raise. But people panic and can’t think. So maintain speed, don’t panic and lock your brakes up.

[-] superkret@feddit.org 2 points 11 hours ago

In this case, the deer just stood there in the road.
Any driver and any AI should be able to stop before the obstacle in that case.
Cause it could be a human, or a fallen tree instead of a deer.

[-] bluGill@fedia.io 6 points 16 hours ago

You should know how to brake without causing maneuver problems (including not locking up the wheels). It is a basic skill needed for many situations. Just keep slowing down, the accelerate just before impact is something that can only be done in movies - any real world attempt will be worse - remember if you keep braking you lose momentum, so the acceleration needs to be perfectly timed or it is worse.

[-] criitz@reddthat.com 16 points 19 hours ago

This sounds made up

[-] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 10 points 19 hours ago
[-] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

Right before hitting begin the keyword. If you can stop before hitting yes that’s ideal, but in situations where it jumps out and you can’t react. Braking during impact is the worst thing you can do.

If you think I’m saying to line it up and accelerate for 200meters, I dont know what to say about that,

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 9 points 17 hours ago

Braking during impact is the worst thing you can do.

This is not correct, where are you getting this from?

[-] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 3 points 13 hours ago

Dude, the article just said to hit the brakes "if you can't avoid hitting a deer", the exact scenario you described... Did you even open it?

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

I can see it in the headline, without opening the article

[-] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 2 points 9 hours ago

akshually that's the sorta-nonstandard text fragment that tells the browser to automatically scroll to the text, not the headline at all

[-] Ferris@infosec.pub 5 points 19 hours ago

aight what's your strategy for hitting a giraffe, then?

[-] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 3 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

Same for a moose? Speed up so you clear it before gravity caves your car roof.

You maintain speed, you can’t maneuver well if braking, and as stated your hood dips while braking too which can cause worse issues.

[-] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 7 points 14 hours ago

The whole premise of ABS brakes, which all cars made in North America since 2012 will have, is specifically to allow you to maintain control when you fully apply the brakes. Unless you are a professional driver or have a car without ABS, you should just fully apply the brakes in an emergency stop. Please stop telling people that fully applying the brakes will reduce manueverability when it won't for the majority of drivers in the developed world.

And if someone's vehicle doesn't have ABS, they should know how to properly brake without locking their tires, and when it won't be appropriate to use them.

[-] Aphelion@lemm.ee 7 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

That's a good strategy to ensure you die: a mooses torso is already higher than the hood of a lot of SUVs, so you're taking a moose to the face.

[-] troed@fedia.io 10 points 18 hours ago

Troll comment.

You do that - you die.

[-] Slowy@lemmy.world 9 points 18 hours ago

No, for moose you are actually supposed to swerve and risk the ditch.

[-] bluGill@fedia.io 1 points 16 hours ago

I don't know, where I live giraffes are only in the zoo and thus never on the road. I'm not aware of any escaping the zoo.

I'm sure if I lived around wild deere, my training would include that, but since I don't I was able to save some time by not learning that.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 2 points 10 hours ago

What if you're driving through a zoo though?

[-] bluGill@fedia.io 1 points 8 hours ago

I've never been in a zoo I'm allowed to drive more thln e wheelchair through. They may require extra training - I would not know

[-] Hubi@feddit.org 25 points 19 hours ago

The problem is not that the deer was hit, a human driver may have done so as well. The actual issue is that the car didn't do anything to avoid hitting it. It didn't even register that the deer was there and, what's even worse, that there was an accident. It just continued on as if nothing happened.

[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 11 points 19 hours ago

Yeah, the automated system should be better than a human. That is the whole point of collision detection systems!

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago

Right. I was trying to decide whether to mention that deer can be hard to spot in time. Even in the middle of the road like this, they’re non-reflective and there may be no movement to catch the eye. It’s very possible for a human to be zoning out and not notice this deer in time

But yeah, this is where we need the car to help. This is what the car should be better than human with. This is what would make ai a good tool to improve safety. If it saw the deer

[-] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 16 points 19 hours ago

Deer jump out of dark places

that one was just standing there, yo

[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 10 points 19 hours ago

If tesla also used radar or other sensing systems instead of limiting themselves to only cameras then being in the dark wouldn't be an issue.

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 8 points 17 hours ago

Deer on the road is an edge case that humans cannot handle well.

If I'm driving at dawn or dusk, when they're moving around in low light I'm extra careful when driving. I'm scanning the treeline, the sides of the road, the median etc because I know there's a decent chance I'll see them and I can slow down in case they make a run across the road. So far I've seen several hundred deer and I haven't hit any of them.

Tesla makes absolutely no provision in this regard.

This whole FSD thing is a massive failure of oversight, no car should be doing self driving without using cameras and radar and Tesla should be forced to refund the ~~suckers~~ customers who paid for this feature.

[-] bluGill@fedia.io 2 points 16 hours ago

Sure, I do that too. I also have had damage because a deer I didn't see jumped out of the trees onto the road. (Though as others pointed out this case the deer was on the road with plenty of time to stop (or at least greatly slow down), but the Tesla did nothing.

[-] DanglingFury@lemmy.world 3 points 15 hours ago

Damn right. Stomp the brakes and take it to the face.

[-] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 1 points 15 hours ago

Sunk cost? Tech worship?

I’m so jaded, I question my wife when she says the sun will rise tomorrow so I really don’t get it either.

this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
540 points (100.0% liked)

Technology

58998 readers
3329 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS