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Far left intellectualism
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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i mean, to my knowledge maybe i'm wrong i don't follow this conflict very closely, but so far the only source i've seen for it being genocide was the ICJ ruling that it "might be genocide if this continues getting worse" which i dont believe was followed up on.
A number of history scholars or whoever have claimed that it "amounts to genocide" or is "effectively genocide" (im being really generous with the phrasing here) which people have equated to mean "there is genocide"
The ICC has put out a warrant for the funny israeli guy, doesn't mention genocide.
I don't know if any countries have explicitly called it genocide? Aside from maybe south africa, idk how they raised the case. But if you know of any cases, inform me, i am actually curious about that one.
and if we go with a strict definition of genocide, I.E. "strictly killing related to ethnicity" and extrapolate that to a test of "would the killing stop if the conflict stopped" i personally so no reason why israel would continue to kill people in the same capacity as they are not, or at all, if the conflict magically stopped entirely.
People also point to the UN definition of genocide being incredibly broad. The US bombing japan in WW2 would arguably be genocide under that definition, most wars would constitute genocide. Now to be clear, i don't think it's bad, it's just a legal definition, meant to be held out in a court of law, which usually tend to be pretty vague, until tried.
Frankly, i think it would also be rather unprecedented for someone in a higher position of power to call this a "genocide" as well. Who knows what kind of a mess that would entail. It's certainly not something you want to throw around if you want the rest of the government, and the american public to like you. Which is, the goal of politics.
I don't really see any reasonable expectation for her to call it a genocide. Expectation to callout war crimes and various other wrong doings? As well as retracting support? Absolutely.
Although little fun fact, right now the harris campaign isn't running on policy, as policy gives something for trump to attack, so without policy he can't attack anything she says, aside from her character, so it's pretty likely they're trying to outwit trump in that regard, if you're wondering why she doesn't talk about things like this more specifically.
10% of the Gazan people are injured, missing, or dead within a year. Drag thinks 10% in a year is a large number. Drag thinks Israel wants to destroy Palestine so Israel can have Palestine's land. Drag thinks killing 10% of the Gazan people is an act intended to destroy Palestine.
Drag thinks these are the words of politicians who want to commit genocide.
i assume you're pulling the 200k number? which would be 10% of 2 million. If so it's worth noting that only 40k deaths have been confirmed, which gives us a baseline of 2.5% of the population has been killed for sure. Upwards of 10% using estimations or whatever idk where that number comes from and frankly i don't care enough to look it up, if you would like to elaborate on it feel free.
As far as historical references go, and i'm just pulling these out of my ass (from the internet of course) so take them with a grain of salt. The soviets seem to have lost about 10% of their population during ww2. Citing wikipedia of all sources, for ww1 and ww2
Numbers between 1-5% of the population seems to be about within the range of normalcy, in fact the average of ww1 is about 2% and ww2 is about 3% 10% is high but you would expect that to be seen with smaller populations and less armed populations (for obvious reasons) generally when smaller nations conflict, they tend to have much larger (comparatively) tolls, due to the fact that they don't have as much land, or labor capability.
Larger nations such as the US are able to keep such low numbers primarily because they don't have to invest a significant portion of their population to make a significant troop increase.
is this bad? Probably? But then again war is bad, so... At the end of the day, this is just a risk that you take as a smaller nation, especially going against a much bigger nation.
and honestly. i don't really disagree. I don't think colonization constitutes as genocide per se however.
Maybe, or maybe it's just a result of how the middle eastern warring tends to go. They've never exactly had high standards.
if you want to argue that the politicians are shitheads, sure, i agree, they've definitely said some genocidal esque language, and some really spooky shit. But so have politicians in the US. Does that directly translate? Probably, at least to some degree. But policy is always going to be fundamentally different to rhetoric at the end of the day. Look no further than US domestic politics if you need an example for this.
I came here to argue against the incorrect semantic usage of the term genocide.
Drag disagrees with you characterising the conflict as a war. These are not just military losses.
Here's a list of zero year olds killed by the IDF in the last year. Zero year olds are not soldiers.
https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2024/israel-war-on-gaza-10000-children-killed/
oh well if we're including civilian deaths, and you assume i'm only talking about military deaths (which afaik i wasn't but i didn't look too hard at the data so lmao)
This would actually only bolster my point. As it would increase the stats i've presented, or decrease the ones you've presented.
also to be clear, there's like 300 names on the list.
"When Al Jazeera launched from the Qatari capital, Doha, on Friday, November 1, 1996, it was the first independent news channel in the Arab world." cool source bro.
Shitposting aside, i have nothing to reference this number to. It's probably high, but that's a cost that israel is willing to take, and clearly, it's a cost that palestine is willing to pay. Seems to me that both parties are content with the situation.
Those babies didn't vote for Hamas. Most of the people in Gaza didn't vote for Hamas. The last election was in 2006, and the median age in Gaza is 18. The percentage of currently alive Gazans who participated in that election is tiny. And Israel interfered in that election to help Hamas. Hamas is a puppet of Israel, selling Israel's propaganda that they are at war with Gaza. They are not. They are at war with Hamas. Gaza is not Hamas. Gaza is not at war, it's just being levelled.