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Does each language have "lefty loosey righty tighty"?
(lemmy.world)
The world has a lot of different standards for a lot of things, but I have never heard of a place with the default screw thread direction being opposite.
So does each language have a fun mnemonic?
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This phrase has never made any sense to me. It’s a circle. If one side is moving right, then the opposite side is moving left. So the phrase only makes sense if you specify which side we are talking about, which nobody ever does. Therefore it’s completely illogical to me while everyone else just gets it. Side note: Autism can be a real bitch sometimes.
Edit:
But the entire rotation is either clockwise (right) or counterclockwise (left). Ultimately, its just a helpful reminder which way to turn lol
Clockwise and counter-clockwise makes sense.
But when you say “right” it’s not clear which side of the circle is being referenced. If the top of the circle is moving to the right, the bottom is moving left at the same time. So the saying only makes sense when you specify that you’re talking about the top of the circle.
you have to have never seen a steering wheel to not understand which side of the circle is being referenced. it's always the top. who would even reference anything else and why.
"turn it right"
"which part???"
"the middle of course, you absolute alien"
Because people get confused when there is no space for the wrench at the top, and they put the handle at the bottom and try to move the wrench left or right, not referencing the top of bolt.
Because they aren't using the saying as a clokwise/counter clockwise reminder but as a flat out instruction.
I think we can all understand how it functions but that doesn't make it "correct." It's spinning around a circle. Exactly half of its moving right as the other half moves left. That's why we have the terms clockwise and counter-clockwise. If left and right were actually reasonable for something spinning in a circle this wouldn't exist.
yes it would. we always have redundancy, especially in speech. also we're not robots, technicality doesn't matter, how we communicate does. do you get confused when people say something like "that's all behind us now" meaning the past? do you literally turn around and argue that there's nothing really behind you and they should have said in the past instead?
Yes, it's always the top side of the circle in this context, or you can think about how clock hands do go in a specific direction, because they're a radius, not a circumference. There, now it's cleared up for you.
The clock hands move right when at the top but left when at the bottom.
In Australia, it's the other way around and the clock will try to eat you or at least sting you to death.
What the fuck are you talking about.
You’re either rotating the fastener to the right or the left.
It doesn’t matter what side you’re talking about, because you’re not moving one side of the fastener, you’re rotating the whole thing one direction or the other.
Clockwise just means something is rotating to the right.
If I ask you to turn around to the right, are you going to ask me what side of you I’m referencing?
Here is clockwise. One arrow is going to the right and one to the left.
I tend to agree but you could argue that from a perspective in the center of the rotation you’re turning to the right. Imagine standing in the center of those arrows.
The whole thing is rotating to the right, that’s what clockwise means. Clocks rotate to the right. One arrow is not pointing left, it’s pointing in the direction of rotation, which is to the right.
The bottom arrow is, definitionally, pointing left.
You think this arrow is pointing to the right, when it is clearly pointing up and to the left? Fascinating.
If you follow that arrow around to the next with your hand, which direction is your hand moving?
That is indicating clockwise rotation, or a rotation to the right. We’re talking about circles here
If I start at the beginning of the arrow and follow it, it's moving left.
If clockwise was the same thing as right, we wouldn't use that term.
Is the direction of rotation in the room with us right now?
What happens if you look at it from the other side?
No, because humans have a pretty clear forward direction. Screws don't. You say turn a screw to the right, do you mean make the top of the screw move right or the bottom move right?
Most people assume the top, but not all, and the language is ambiguous.
You aee assuming a top orientation moving to the right. Give somebody a wrench handle at the bottom of nut and tell them left to loosen, you will see how most take it literally and move handle to the left side of their body. they think in terms of their left and their right, not the screws right left from a starting location at top, or if from 4 oclock position to the "left of" 4 oclock as if you were facing the 4.
Imagine it as if it were a track you were driving around, which way would you turn the wheel?
It's getting so convoluted at this point just knowing clockwise/anticlockwise is infinitely easier.
Yes! That concept makes way more sense.
So you're explaining rotation, in terms of a smaller imaginary rotation, which engages with imaginary traction wheels, which engage with the work to be turned?
If that works for you, great, but it is complicated.
Clockwise and counterclockwise may be more intuitive for some people. Is the clock-hand (wrench) going forward in time, or backwards. But I don't know of any quick rhyme for that
Don't think about it in 3d space.
They mean is the wrench handle moving left from the 12 o'clock position or left from the 6 o'clock position. You would not believe how many people struggle with lefty righty because of start location.
I defer to clockwise and counter-clockwise (anti-clockwise in UK). Except for new gen that never learned analog clock stuggles with this concept also.
Then they encounter a Left Hand thread and the universe implodes
Shit, a standard thread feels natural to me, but a left hand thread still fucks my life up sometimes — trying to notice what's going on before I strip it.
My grill can connect to those camping propane tanks, but it's threaded opposite... gets me every time
I have left-hand threaded fittings on a few things and always say to myself aloud "This is reverse-threaded" before I attempt to turn them then still fuck up first turn. It doesn't stop me from fucking it up the first time - it just helps me remember why.
When I train new people on this equipment I tell them to say it aloud, show them, still fuck up the first turn, then they laugh.
Then I have them do it in front of me including saying it aloud - and they fuck up the first turn...
When you've been doing something unconsciously for decades it's really hard to break.
I think it was old Chryslers had opposite lugnuts, I can only imagine how many stripped threads happened
I assure you I’m only thinking of it in two dimensions.
If you're looking head on to the screw/nut/whatever then we're talking about the top of the screw/but/whatever.
You can also imagine if the nut was actually a wheel. Which way would you spin it to make it roll left or right.
Confused the hell out of me at a young age. That's how I came around to thinking of it
If it were a wheel which way would it roll?
I agree but there is a intuitive way once you are holding it. I remember looking at a car wheel and the signal lever not understanding how do people decided that up on the lever means right. Yeah it's connected to the wheel rotation but why turning the wheel clockwise means turning right? When I actually sat on the driver seat there was an instinct.For most people It's more logical to look at the "top" of the circle and corelate it's movement with turning left/right.
A thing that annoyed me is when table top games use a non determinist way to define player order. It always depends on the observer.alIf you just say "then the you pass your turn to the left", what left? From my perspective; from the top down perspective translating it to counterclockwise? From the tables perspective which is the opposite?
They are not a circle unless you have some really odd bolts or screws! I suppose a bolt looks like a circle in "Flatland" but we live in 3D space with time as a fourth dimension that we can directly perceive.
A screw or bolt and the rest are, roughly speaking, a cylinder with a helical thread on it. They also have a "head" or similar which acts a stopper. You can model all of them as a bolt. We use a spanner, wrench, fingers, screw drivers, drill drivers, scissors, whatever to do the tightening or loosening. You can model all those tools as a spanner (wrench). We need some final mental contortions to make this slightly rigorous: The spanner (wrench) is always considered as being at 12:00 on an imaginary clock and we have to assume that our bolt moves away from us for "tighten" and towards us for "loosen" and I suppose we should also require that we are looking at the "face" of the notional clock and not its obverse!
Now it should be obvious how the rule works. Turn the spanner to the right and you tighten the bolt, turn it to the left and you loosen it.
OK that lot is not very helpful when you are under a sink or in a roofing void performing strange contortions. Try holding up one of your hands and pretend you are holding a bolt or the head of a screw. Clockwise turns will tighten and anti clockwise will loosen. You might use "leftie loosey ..." to bootstrap: "clockwise tighten". It becomes even more interesting when you are trying to work out which way to turn a bolt or whatever when you can only feel it and when tightening actually moves it towards you.
Think about a bolt running through a wheel with the head towards us, say on a very simplified bicycle. Move the bike to the right, and hence the wheels turn clockwise. Friction should cause the bolt to tighten. If you change the design and put the bolt in on the other side and now forwards for the bike is to the left then you will loosen the bolt and that will be dangerous. Now change the design to a bolt with a nut and washers etc and it rapidly gets complicated!
Also, please note that some bolts have reverse threads to the norm. On a garden strimmer the tightening knob that holds the spool on is often a reverse threaded bolt. That's for similar reasons to the bicycle wheel thing I mentioned earlier.
I've just spent ages and a lot of words to try and persuade you that this has bugger all to do with autism. I think that your error was really to do with not thinking too deeply about the real issue and focusing on the wrong thing. We all do that, extremely often, regardless of where we are on the spectrum.
I hope that you see that considerations with regarding helical threads on a cylinder or a tapering cone (but not circles) can be quite complicated and that's why sometimes we all need some silly rules to get us through the every day ordeal of dealing with them.
Now, would you like a chat about circles ... 8)
I used to feel the same way. If you're talking about the direction you're moving your hand, it assumes your hand is above, not below.
Had a similar hangup with less than/greater than symbols.
SAME!
Even "clockwise/counter-clockwise" is a bit vague if you're not both on the same side of the thing, since something turning clockwise from one perspective turns counter seen from the opposite side.
I remember when my grandpa was like why not just keep going? I was pulling the ratchet end of the wrench off the bolt at the bottom.. I said but that side is left and he laughed and said its just to get you started and told me the clock thing. Dont ever ask me to put a nut on a bolt I will cross thread it every time.