420
Discussion
(lemmy.dbzer0.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2024
420 points (100.0% liked)
Lefty Memes
4359 readers
14 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Exactly, heavy taxation on the ultra wealthy and wealth caps are incredibly popular topics in liberal circles. I swear some people have never actually talked to a liberal and just attack some strawman they've lumped in together with conservatives.
I'm leftist and anti-capitalist, but I also recognize that most liberals are people who want the same things leftists do, but simply haven't thought deeply enough about what the true root causes of society's issues are. It's an issue of tactics rather than a fundamental disconnect in core principles and values. Ultimately they want a more equitable, less stratified society where society helps and supports the disenfranchised. The same thing leftists want. They just don't understand that capitalism has to go in order to achieve it.
Liberals, unlike conservatives, are actually generally quite reasonable people since they aren't motivated by hatred. As leftists, we should be doing everything we can to educate them and bring them into the fold, rather than tearing them down.
Well said. Education over isolation is the only way we’ll move forward.
I think you are being overly generous here. The number of middle class or wealthy liberals who want meaningful wealth distribution is vanishingly small. I'll leave this comment because I agree with your closing sentiment, but please be mindful of rule 3. This is a space for lefty memes, not involved political discussion, or liberal apologia.
What's most important is that you get to feel smugly superior.
The irony of you saying this is earth-shattering.
k
Thanks for thinking about me!
No need to thank me. I'll always will be dedicating all my thoughts and prayers to the shitlibs.
never heard of the "thoughts and prayers" trope eh? I guess I expected too much of you.
You pretend the comment I was responding to was trying to discuss in good faith?
Very mature
Who said I am in a mood to discuss rn? Y'all never never seen a meme, I swear...
I don't owe chuds like you engagement
Sure buddy.
Sure buddy
Sure buddy
"Discuss in good faith"
Reads comments....
Liberals absolutely arent centrists, Social Democrats are centrist. Liberals are right wing, fundamentally you cannot be a leftist while supporting a "free" capitalist economy and minimal government (thats what Liberalism is).
Nah dude a liberal can be right wing and another lib can be left. You can be a liberal soc dem if you want
There is a set definition for what liberalism is.
Because it considers private property a core foundation it literally can’t be left wing. Leftists (whether socialists or anarchists) believe private (not personal) property should be abolished.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum
You don't define what's left and what is right. Most people agree that liberal can mean left, central, right or right wing
I accidently responded to the wrong message last time. In the vast majority of countries Liberal is right wing, America is an outlier because of the red scare. Fundamentally Liberalism isnt left wing, its just the most left wing option Americans have so they they see it as left wing. Fundamentally if you believe in private property, capitalism, few social programs, funding genocide, and imperialism you are a right winger.
(Ex: the German political spectrum)
From your linked article:
Yup. A single set definition alright.🙄
And they all still enshrine the sanctity of private property which was my point when referencing the definition. All the variations of liberalism still boil down to a capitalist ideology.
Liberals are Centrist they've always been centrists for 400 years.
You're complaining about making the political axis reductive and yet your entire comment completely ignores the existence of actual French leftists during the revolution. The Liberals in France might have helped to begin the revolution, and they were certainly the ones that help to end the revolution, but they weren't the only members of the revolution. They helped to murder and destroy the French left During the Revolution and in the years that came after. Surely you aren't arguing that Babeuf was a liberal? But his mere existence shows the great flaw in your theory. The French liberals were to the right of him and a number of other French revolutionaries. So how could they be the extreme radicals you claim they were?
You can only say that Liberals are the left if you're looking at it solely from the perspective of extreme conservatives and regressives. Yes if that's the only way you view history is through their eyes then everything can look leftist. That does not mean it is though. The Liberals of the American and French Revolution were those that that wished for the culmination and empowerment the burgiose. The ascendancy of the capitalist class. Nobody who works for this ascendancy can be called leftist. You're basically making the Overton window argument. That because we are at a time of extreme right wing thought that centrism would have been only moderately right wing. We know that's not true. Just look at the Shakers in England during their Civil War. A people most would classify as a Proto communist movement.
What are the tenants of the neoliberalism economic philosophy?
Edit: not saying the philosophy definition is the only def, just pointing out there are multiple common usages so when someone says 'liberal' without defining the term it's ambiguous.
Classic liberalism =/= neoliberalism
The meme doesn’t say neoliberals. It says liberals.
What you are saying fits the american "liberal" label. What you are describing I would call social democrat, not a liberal. People calling themselves liberal in europe are, examples from sweden: compares public insight into publicly funded privatly owned companies to soviet, are for privatization of welfare institutions, collaborates with the far right, calls rightwing newspapers communist, and are against free speech at universities.
To be fair though, the meme is probably targeting socdems anyway so I guess fair enough.
Aren’t SocDems a type of liberal?