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Selective rage (slrpnk.net)
submitted 3 months ago by ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net to c/memes@lemmy.world
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[-] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 53 points 3 months ago

I only care when it's stupid, like Medieval Poland being full of black people, not even modern day Poland has that many black people.

You can call me racist if you want but casting a black guy to play the president of the USA in like 1910 would be as stupid as casting a white guy to play Nebuchadnezzar.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 41 points 3 months ago

The Witcher isn't in Medieval Poland though, it's in a fantasy land.

Rings of Power was far more dumb because there's black people, but only in a few extremely important roles. Almost as if there's some sort of reverse curse going on, where a baby pops out black, and they immediately make it their king/queen. Or more likely, they realised very late on that they'd made a very white cast, and made a few last minute changes.

[-] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 18 points 3 months ago

The Witcher isn’t in Medieval Poland though, it’s in a fantasy land.

So by that logic it's fine to make Wakanda full of white people because it's fantasy land right?

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 9 points 3 months ago

Wakkkanda it is.

[-] skulblaka@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 months ago

Sure it would, if the writers had written it that way. South Africa is full of white people, it might have even made sense.

But since they didn't do that, and then wrote their entire storyline around having not done that, this is a poor argument.

[-] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 6 points 3 months ago

Wakanda is supposed to be in Africa, where Uganda is irl.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

It would have had a different backstory, (hiding from colonial powers), but yeah.

[-] Zoomboingding@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

I mean yeah. If the writers wanted to make Wakanda have white people, that would be fine.

[-] andros_rex@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I sometimes think the token representation is on purpose. Riles up the “anti-woke” and means that internet discourse about your show is all about how there’s some black people, not about how shit the writing is.

Like I really don’t give a rats ass if the dwarves are brown or purple or pink. (Although the lack of bearded dwarf women is unacceptable.) The other changes in Rings of Power are actually bad.

[-] androogee@midwest.social 33 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Representation matters. Giving the few traditionally non-white roles that get written in Hollywood to white actors is an actual problem.

Getting mad about the existence of black characters in fiction fucking stupid. Really fucking stupid. Unjustifiably fucking stupid. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[-] Ibaudia@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago

Getting mad sure, but it is definitely a dumb creative decision to have characters be random races that don't make sense in the historical context and it's fine to criticize it. If it's a purely fictional world with no basis in reality then no one should care.

[-] androogee@midwest.social 23 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

No. Fuckin stop it. Its unbearably stupid.

Historical fiction has existed for a long time.

Y'all ain't out here throwing a pouty parade when someone adds technology or magic or monsters into historical fiction.

But black people? Existing? If that's where you draw the line, it's really clear why. Make all the excuses you want.

[-] Ibaudia@lemmy.world 20 points 3 months ago

Historical or alternate history fiction falls under pure fiction imo. That's fine as long as it makes sense. If it's meant to be some super grounded realistic historical slice-of-life then it would just make me think "when are they going to bring up the fact that there's X type of person walking around here" for the whole story.

Not exclusive to black people. If there were a story that took place in 12th century Mongolia and there was some Nordic guy walking around I would be like "huh, what's his story" and then be confused when it was never mentioned. That's how I feel about a lot of these creative choices.

[-] androogee@midwest.social 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

That's literally just a longer way of saying that it's okay if it's magic but it's not okay if it's black people.

& yeah, I'll hold my breath for people getting equally upset about white people in fiction. Any day now. I'm sure.

I can't disapprove a hypothetical, I guess, but a hypothetical isn't proof of anything either.

[-] SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

But magic doesn't have any grounding or association with the world as we know it. Neither does aliens. We can only use the world as we know it as a frame of reference for a story.

I'd argue in lbaudia's example that it is confusing if in 12th century Mongolia, there was some Nordic guy walking around, I'd imagine there to be a backstory of some kind. If there wasn't, then that would definitely be an example where I'd be annoyed at white people in fiction.

I thought a great example of casting was the TV show "The Expanse". To be able to cast someone as specific as Bobbie Draper so well - these studios have no excuse to whitewash as they do except laziness.

[-] androogee@midwest.social 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

People made these exact same arguments about the inclusion of a black samurai in an Assassin's Creed game.

A black samurai who was based on a real person who actually existed in history.

The game they're playing is very obvious to anyone who's actually paying an ounce of attention, and it has nothing to do with caring about historical accuracy.

It's bullshit. It's an excuse. It's foolish. I do not suffer it gladly.

[-] Ibaudia@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Assassin's creed is purely fictional and has very little basis in reality, so no, people do not make the exact same argument about Assassin's creed, because my argument necessarily excludes it as I have said already lol. Besides, Yaskue was a real person. It's not even historically inaccurate and his origin is explained.

Good example, in Castlevania Nocturne they introduce a bunch of multi-ethnic characters and give them all backstories as to how they ended up in 19th century France. I think that's awesome, and I love to see the thought and effort being put in there. I don't want these characters to be white, I want them to have a story.

[-] SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Yes, and I loved that they wrote the black samurai character into that game to tell that story! I don't get your point?

[-] androogee@midwest.social 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

That you are, whether intentionally or unintentionally, toying around with white supremacist propaganda narratives.

That's my point.

Narratives created to influence your mind and radicalize you.

No one is immune to these influences. Beware.

[-] Ibaudia@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

No, nuance exists and this is ridiculous absolutism lmao.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 months ago

I'd argue that magic does have grounding in our world. Sure, we understand today (at leady most of us) that it isn't real. For most of our history people have believed magic was real though, and attributed real events to magic. We have the word because it has a long history of people thinking it exists. If a story wanted to use "magic" to explain events, that'd be pretty realistic to the times it's taking place in.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Except there actually were people of different cultures/ethnicities/nationalities in other places in the past, often without anyone caring that much. Sure, it was often notable but it wasn't always exclusionary. Implying this shouldn't be done is the real historical fiction.

[-] Ibaudia@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

"It happened" and "it is good writing" are different imo. I just want diverse characters in typically mono-ethnic settings to have a story as to how they got there. I feel like that's just good writing.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 months ago

It could be part of good writing. It absolutely isn't required. We don't get the background on most characters. Why should they have to give detail they wouldn't provide for other characters just to satisfy you?

[-] Ibaudia@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

I feel like this is deliberately obtuse lol

[-] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 20 points 3 months ago

100% agree, but what should be done would be to green light projects by writers of other races based on different cultures and folklores diversifying the pop culture space (for lack of a better term).

What is done instead is treating minorities as a checklist that needs to be checked in every piece of art even when it doesn't make sense for them to be in that story.

[-] linearchaos@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

Oh the sweet voice of a reason, they don't take well to that around here. Good on you.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 16 points 3 months ago

It'd be as bad as having people of color play Hamilton and associates!

[-] bouh@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

Meanwhile middle age fantasy had black knights and it was fine.

Racists are gonna be racists is all there is.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

The actual Middle Ages had black knights in Northern Europe and Scandinavians in the Middle East. Forget fantasy. That actually happened.

[-] Smoogs@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

You can call me racist

As tone deaf as it gets.

[-] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 6 points 3 months ago

"Here are three examples I made up to prove how not racist I am!"

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

That depends on what you're doing with it. If Abraham Lincoln is a vampire hunter by night then I don't think anybody's going to care who plays the character. It's obviously beyond reality. If you're doing the story of Black World War 1 veterans fighting the KKK then you're going to want representation before the NAACP starts picketing your studio.

[-] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

sounds like some men in black 3 setting

this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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