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https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf
Edit: FTA, since people think this is whataboutism :)
Edit 2: ITT Hamas? You mean Israel? If not obvious by this point, the effort is to discredit/downplay anything critical of Hamas, turn discussion about Hamas activities into whataboutisms towards Israel, and reframe arguments against Hamas activities as a defense of genocide. Rinse, repeat in every thread about this conflict. Kinda boring after a while.
Fukhueson when they find out you're not actually supposed to kill human shields:
Wait until you find out that no one should be using human shields to begin with :) either side.
But they are, that is the situation we are in. At every point we can say Hamas is a piece of shit group for using human shields, but that's not gonna change the situation. You keep saying that Hamas isn't getting enough criticism, but I think bombardment by the IDF is criticism enough. The whole ask is, stop shooting through the human shields to kill the bad guys. Even here there is doubt that there even was Hamas hiding with civilians to begin with. We are just giving Israel loads and loads of money, but we can't even get a more definitive answer than "we said so"? At this point I can only think that, even if by some chance Israel really isn't commiting a genocide, the end result will be indistinguishable from it. Palestine and it's people will be erased physically or culturally and we are allowing it to happen, and any pointing that out is met with "Hamas is the one using them as shields" or "Hamas started it". Hamas is unconscionable. Israel isn't, or atleast they say they aren't.
Ignoring your comment since you're misrepresenting my argument. No need to address anything you said, this is simply an attempt to reframe my concern that criticism of Hamas is met with whataboutism.
Just look at the soap box this user takes advantage of when I say no one should use human shields. "Yea Hamas does it, but Israel???"
Tell me what criticism of Hamas accomplishes then. They went and killed a thousand innocent Israelis, they hide among civilians, resulting in said civilians deaths. What now? Do I get a gold star for pointing out the terrorists? Do the dead get to cheer that their death meant another Hamas militant died (or didn't in the case of this article)?Are the living supposed to feel grateful to Israel that their family and friends are dead, needless to say hateful towards Hamas for hiding amongst them? What is the goal here? What are me, and the dozens of other people here, missing that only you seem to see?
Tell me what criticism of Hamas accomplishes then. They went and killed a thousand innocent Israelis, they hide among civilians, resulting in said civilians deaths. What now? Do I get a gold star for pointing out the terrorists? Do the dead get to cheer that their death meant another Hamas militant died (or didn't in the case of this article)?Are the living supposed to feel grateful to Israel that their family and friends are dead, needless to say hateful towards Hamas for hiding amongst them? What is the goal here? What are me, and the dozens of other people here, missing that only you seem to see? And again I will point it out, this entire thread started when you saw an article takling about Israel's recent mistake, and said "But why isn't anyome criticising Hamas?"
Wow, now that's a stupid hypothetical.
Uh huh. Yet all of your comments are clearly supportive of the IDF's actions, and we know for a fact that the IDF uses civilians (often children) as human shields:
https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-human-shields
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-08-13/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-uses-gazan-civilians-as-human-shields-to-inspect-potentially-booby-trapped-tunnels/00000191-4c84-d7fd-a7f5-7db6b99e0000
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/14/israeli-forces-in-gaza-use-civilians-as-human-shields-against-possible-booby-traps
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israeli-armys-use-palestinian-civilians-human-shields-has-been-documented-large-scale
How would Israel operate differently if Hamas was hiding in Tel Aviv and using those citizens as their human shields?
Ah yes, hypotheticals we'd never have to consider. What if Hamas actually cared about Palestinians?
Am I doing it right? :)
You've clearly gotten the point from my hypothetical and don't like the conclusion you yourself have reached ;)
Enjoy speedrunning post-9/11 US neoconservatism
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976
Rights expert finds ‘reasonable grounds’ genocide is being committed in Gaza
Nice propaganda to justify Israel's ethnic cleansing and targeting of civilians. That article is full of misinformation and not backed up by independent investigations.
Security
Israel does justify the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets 'Transferred' to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice. See: The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948, the Transfer Committee, and the JNF which led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate, before the mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948: Plan Dalet, Declassified Massacres of 1948, and Details of Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948) . Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967: Haaretz, Forward; while the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements (Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ). The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
Civilian Deaths and Human Shields:
Israel does deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so: ‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza, Lavender, and Where's Daddy. When it comes to Israeli Soldiers and Civilians, there is also the use of the Hannibal Directive, which was also used on Oct 7th.
Hundreds of Genocide Scholars have described this ethnic cleansing campaign as genocide because of the deliberate targeting of children/civilians and expressed intent by Israeli officials: “A Textbook Case of Genocide”: Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza, 800+ Legal Scholars Say Israel May Be Perpetrating 'Crime of Genocide' in Gaza , Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide – Continuously Updated.
On the subject of Human Shields, there are some independent reports for past conflicts of Hamas jeopardizing the safety of civilians via Rocket fire in dense urban areas, two instances during Oct 7th, but no independent verification since then so far. None of which absolve Israel of the crime of targeting civilians under international law:
HRW on Laws-of-War Violations 2009
Agency Demands Full Respect for the Sanctity of Its Premises in Gaza - July 2014
HRW - Palestinian Armed Groups’ October 7 Assault on Israel
Israel/OPT: Israeli attacks targeting Hamas and other armed group fighters that killed scores of displaced civilians in Rafah should be investigated as war crimes
HRW - Gaza: Unlawful Israeli Hospital Strikes Worsen Health Crisis
Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields: IDF uses Human Shields, including Children (2013 Report), and in the latest war Israel “Systematically” Uses Gaza Children as Human Shields, Rights Group Finds
My properly sourced information is not invalidated by anything you said. It actually cited multiple highly reliable sources.
Also it's whataboutism :) anyone noticing a pattern here? Blindly discredit anything critical of Hamas?
Goodbye!
Edit: there's nothing "propaganda" about NATO. This ought to be a red flag... And yes, this report confirms more than your sources do, posting incomplete assessments of Hamas' use of human shields does not discredit NATO, sorry.
Edit 2: how hilarious is it that NATO stratcom is accused of being a propaganda outlet when the original post is from MEE?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Eye
Is this comment also accusing me of justifying genocide? Like the others that were removed?
You can't be serious. Everyone does propaganda, propaganda is everywhere. Just because you happen to agree with NATO propaganda doesn't mean it isn't propaganda. Your original comment is propaganda, the responses to it are propaganda, this entire comment section is full of propaganda. Anyone disseminating information reflecting the views or interests of any doctrine or cause is engaging in propaganda.
Edit:
I did debunk your quoted paragraphs about human shields and provided sources. Here is a video that details the situation if you prefer
Person provides an incredibly detailed, well sourced comment and you don't even address a single point from it. Huh.