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this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2024
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Alright, so stay with here....
The article is spreading Holocaust misinformation too. Most of the victims of the Holocaust were not Jewish.
6 million out of 17 million isn't a majority.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims
It's fucking infuriating that so many people keep repeating that bullshit. People legit believe it, it's what we're taught in schools even. But it's just propaganda so kids grow up more likely to excuse Israel's current genocides.
I was taught that it was the largest specific group targeted not that it was the majority.
And in this case it's fine for the author to simplify. Because the specifics of the Holocaust isn't the article focus. It's about current day people denying it happened at all and their political affiliation.
Same, but it's the framing of the number that they're calling into question. As if to force people to say "only 6 million of the 17 million," or, "if they're lying about this, what else are they lying about?"
Truly devious and truly maniacal.
From the linked table, the largest specific group is Soviets.
Including 7.8 million soviet civilians and POWs in the count kind of seems like a revisionist definition of what the holocaust was to include anyone killed in the war. To undermine how much focus was on the jews pre-war.
To be fair, the Soviet citizens were targeted because of their ethnicity. Slavics were considered sub human like Jews.
Then you'd have to also look at deaths before the war for every group...
Like, you get that right?
Do you just not know most of the death wasn't till Nazis understood they were likely going to lose the war?
That's not a rhetorical question. To understand how to best explain this it helps if I know this is something you've thought about more than clicking on the Wikipedia link from a social media comment 2 minutes ago.
Where do I need to start explaining stuff here?
According to museumoftolerance.com and their Holocaust Timeline, Hitler said during a Reichstag speech in January 1939:
So before the war even started, when these people were already surviving in the world, eating, etc, the Nazis and Hitler already knew feeding them would be a logistical problem best solved by death?
The Chelmno (Kulmhof) extermination camp began operations on December 8, 1941, literally one day after Pearl Harbor, far before Germany was "losing" the war. And camps don't just pop up overnight, especially ones that earn the denomination of being an extermination camp, so was this just more logistical foresight on behalf of those oh so kind Nazi officials?
From the same source regarding the Kulmhof Extermination Camp opening:
Or the March 17, 1942 Entry:
Wow, the German 6th Armored didn't surrender at Stalingrad until January 1943, and the Allies didn't invade until June 1944, so that's an awful lot of "mercy killing" happening before the Nazis knew they were going to lose the war.
And FYI, just because the Nazis didn't begin their extermination campaign until after the war began, doesn't mean their actions don't signal what their intentions were from the start: Dachau opened in March 1933, Jewish Germans were barred from military service in 1935, Jewish doctors barred from practicing medicine in 1936, immigrant Jews having their German citizenship status revoked, the Nuremberg Laws of 1935, Kristallnacht in 1938... Like, you see all this, right?
Where do I need to start explaining stuff here?
So I said:
And you link about less than a million deaths...
Do you think 1 out of 17 million is a majority?
Then there's a big rant about other stuff you didn't understand...
But I won't get to that, one thing at a time because it's concerning we're going in the wrong way.
6/17 isn't bigger than half, and 1/17 is a lot less than half, you need the top number to get bigger
Removed, civility.
So, nothing but insults?
And accusing the people who don't want to ignore the majority of Holocaust victims the whole ones denying the Holocaust?
I'm not the one ignoring 11 million deaths because they're not Jewish.
Ok, so then what was the plan? If the killing was a mercy, and was expedited by Germany losing the war, what was the plan for the 17 million collective people? Because I provided such a dismally low number of under one million in response to your comment saying the only reason the Nazis started killing more quickly was because they were losing. And those one million (more, since I'm sure my source didn't count all deaths, only those who were Jewish) mattered to people, so they mean no less than the other 16 million killed later during the war.
I'm waiting, I've provided sources regardless of whether you respect them, you've provided nothing to back up any of your claims, so why don't you refute my apparently unfounded claims of you being a holocaust denier?
Is that civil enough for a discussion with a holocaust denier, moderators? I'm glad we have to respect the opinions of holocaust deniers, god bless tolerating the intolerant. 🙄
Too chicken to answer my questions? Or did you finally realize you're wrong?
I've always heard the figure being 12 million total. I actually saw an older piece of material recently that mentioned the total as being 11 million.i agree that saying Jews were a majority is incorrect and misleading but I don't think it's intentional misinformation. It was the largest individual group.
Are you saying this one journalist who wrote the article wasn't intentionally spreading it as propaganda this time?
Cuz I could believe that, that's how 80 years of propaganda works.
Unless you're as old as Joe Biden, it's been getting spread longer than we've been alive.
But people genuinely believing it doesn't make it fucking better, sure as shit don't make it true.
Look at all the shit trump supporters believe, sincerity of belief is not as important as the factual merit.
God damn. Go touch grass. Why do you think it's acceptable to get so antagonistic when people share a reasonable thought of their own?
Yeah I was talking about this one particular journalist.
So what is the total amount of soviets that were victims?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims
I read that. I mean the total that we're only killed because they were Soviets and not for any other reason, ethnic, sexuality, etc.
And this is the only way you can find anything out?
Asking random people on social media?
It's taken two hours so far, this is faster than you googling?
Are you not able to?
If it's that you do t know how or are so bad at it that this is faster. Have you tried asking nicely? May e I cluding "please"?
I just don't understand what the point is in what you're doing here...
Ok, fuck right off with that attitude.
That link cites the holocaust museum defining the holocaust as the extermination of the Jews.
That quote seems to "benignly" recast the holocaust and eliminate over half of the deaths. Even with POWs excluded.