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Maybe this is better for everyone
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2024
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Yeah I respect vegans, and applaud them for their life choices. I'm not in a position to, or willing at this point to become a vegan, but I looked at their community... Mostly insults when referring to any meat eater. Yeah, I respect them a fair bit less now.
Yes that's how you have a conversation. Good job.
Dave, in fact, could not behave and could not resist a personal attack.
is it very personal?
What part of insulted their individual lifestyle seems like business to you?
they said that they pay to have things killed on their behalf.
if they say it, then it ain't very personal is it?
Individual lifestyle that forces animals through torture and murder. Nah do not misrepresent the situation.
Where is the border between acceptable and not acceptable lifestyle? The animals can't consent. If you beat your wife, is that also an individual lifestyle we have to respect? What if you neglect and beat your pets, for a closer example? What if your individual lifestyle is dumping trash into the ocean?
Luckily we pass laws to regulate unacceptable lifestyles.
Go pass some laws. Instead of trying to be a vegan vigilante, try to organize and show compassion to people. Even if that means being belittled in the process, you'll have the moral high ground.
Do you not understand what the word "personal" means, or are you confused about this usage of attack?
maybe you could enlighten me
Alright. If I were to say something like "You're a dumbass, and have no room to criticize." that'd be a personal attack because I'd be making a (metaphorical) attack on your person (character). Hope that helps.
sure. I did not say anything like that. I just reminded the poster that they pay people to abuse and kill animals.
Is that really so personal?
no one does that
You can keep telling yourself that if it helps.
if you have evidence to the contrary, you should present it.
I'm guessing they mean factory farming
in torture, the pain is the point. while i think factory farming is too ambivalent about suffering, i also believe the suffering is only incidental, not intentional. it's not torture.
perhaps you could explain that subtle difference to the animals going through the system of abuse.
Im sure it would brighten up their days no end to realise the pain they are experiencing is not the point of the system and that therefore, they are not being tortured.
i don't think i can, no. but propagandists can choose to stop using emotionally charged and incorrect terms.
funny that a person called commie doesn't understand exploitation.
this is just posturing and rhetoric. i have no problem with most forms of exploitation (this is true of most people i think). my problem is unfair, or even non-consensual, exploitation of other people.
Nice one comrade!
it is nice to have an examined world-view and be able to defend it, even against the most sinister sophists and zealots.
have you ever paid anyone at a factory farm? i haven't, and i don't think most people have.
And this is why its impossible to have a conversation with yall. Even if you believe this, if you are hostile to outsiders, you just guarantee theyll want to do it more. Cult deprogrammers have to be real nice and mostly just listen for a reason
Your performative concern for animals is noted.
I'll put those performative points into my V card for later use.
Says the person who pays for humans to be tortured they can have a phone.
See? We can all make disingenuous, insulting statements; but that's not productive in getting people to listen to us.
depending on how you see things, abuse is part of any system. that said, humans are at least able to be a part of the system and have dialogue with the system. there is potential to effect a system.
this cannot be said for a 4 day old calf being taken away from the mother for slaughter just so the mother can continue to lactate and little fat Jonny can have his full fat on his frosties again.
lastly, it's hardly insulting to remind people that they pay for disgusting levels of animal abuse.
When you know what occurs in factory farming. Its hard to continue to be nice to others who have the ability to stop supporting the cruel system with their money.
Its often easier to go vegan than people initially believe. You can do it.
We really dont though. It is simply not realistic to fight for an ethic that requires the overwhelming majority to be hyperrational in their ethics. Human nature tends toward cruelty, and Ive yet to see a vegan have recourse for that.
Setting aside the whole plants feel pain too bit
People are cruel often because of the systems they're raised in. I could show you many instances where kindness is punished in order to maintain the status quo of hierarchical systems. Humans can be much more ethical if we chose to be.
Plant react to stimuli however they do not have the nervous system to process pain like the way cows and pigs do.
And yet people default to those systems and have since the agricultural revolution.
As for plant stimuli, who are you to say that doesn't constitute pain? They sure communicate it to those around them, cut grass smell and all that. Does an ant not feel pain because it mostly just responds to and sends out pheromones? Bit of a "my red is your blue" argument you're making.
By eating plant-based you reduce the amount of plants that are grown for human consumption since you skip the farm animals completely “if you’re so concerned about plants feeling pain”
You wouldn’t kick a person and justify that logic saying “but plants feel pain every time you walk on grass”