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submitted 3 months ago by whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml

Is this for real? I can't draw no other conclusion than US defaultism in trans activism gives a free pass to TERF politics in Europe. This kind of news from Germany cannot mean anything good.

According to Wikipedia:

In 2019, the German Language Association VDS (Verein Deutsche Sprache; not to be confused with the Association for the German Language Gesellschaft für deutsche Sprache, GfdS) launched a petition against the use of the gender star, saying it was a "destructive intrusion" into the German language and created "ridiculous linguistic structures". It was signed by over 100 writers and scholars.[11] Luise F. Pusch, a German feminist linguist, criticises the gender star as it still makes women the 'second choice' by the use of the feminine suffix.[12] In 2020, the Gesellschaft für deutsche Sprache declared Gendersternchen to be one of the 10 German Words of the Year.[13]

In 2023, the state of Saxony banned the use of gender stars and gender gaps in schools and education, which marks students' use of the gender stars as incorrect.[14][15] In March 2024, Bavaria banned gender-neutral language in schools, universities and several other public authorities.[16][17] In April 2024, Hesse banned the use of gender neutral language, including gender stars, in administrative language.[18]

Here are the original Wikipedia references

  1. "Der Aufruf und seine Erstunterzeichner". Verein Deutsche Sprache (in German). 6 March 2019. Retrieved 5 April 2020.
  2. Schlüter, Nadja (22 April 2019). ""Das Gendersternchen ist nicht die richtige Lösung"". Jetzt.de (in German). Retrieved 5 April 2020. "GfdS Wort des Jahres" (in German). Retrieved 13 December 2020.
  3. Jones, Sam; Willsher, Kim; Oltermann, Philip; Giuffrida, Angela (2023-11-04). "What's in a word? How less-gendered language is faring across Europe". The Guardian. ISSN 0261-3077. Retrieved 2024-04-05.
  4. "Schools in Saxony are forbidden to use gender language". cne.news. Retrieved 2024-04-05.

I got into this rabbit hole from this news article

News article in German

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[-] whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago

But aren't all these technicalities to undermine the inclusion of one or more genders on the basis of some linguistic purism?

This makes me smirk, because a single course in college linguistics will persuade you there is not bigger amalgamated bastard in town than a human language, which is any non-formal language.

For example, you say they ambiguity of they/them, isn't this comparable to the ambiguity between you/you in plural/singular.

Ambiguity is like, an inherent feature of any language and there are hundreds of languages that resolve ambiguities based on context. Plus, the scholars said that singular them is in usage since the Middle Ages or sth.

So to me all this is a tension between A and B, where A is either linguistic purism or typographical convenience, and B is always including women/trans/non-binary folks. At the same time most people won't accept the feminine gender as all-inclusive because of their fears of emasculation.

It is a deeply laughable situation.

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 months ago

The German thing is a bit different. It's kind of like if English didn't have "they" as a neutral alternative, so people use "**e" as way to mean neither "he" nor "she".

That's fine in writing, but it looks pretty weird, doesn't work well in other forms, and you get things like "e gives the ball to h". It also really doesn't work outside the written word, because how do you pronounce that?

And I do understand that you don't want the female form to be the neutral form. If youre genderneutral, it probably feels weird to be constantly adressed as a woman.

[-] Miaou@jlai.lu 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Would be interesting to know what's your native language, to get an idea of what evolutions are possible.

Because surely someone with such a stark opinion on the matters speaks a gendered language natively, right?

this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
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