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[-] HakFoo@lemmy.sdf.org 104 points 1 year ago

Cars fulfill a very self-indulgent narrative. 'I get to decide where and when I travel', makes people feel "free" snd "important" even when millions of them are silently coming to the same decisions-- like going downtown at 09:00 on weekdsys-- that allow huge efficiency plays.

Notice how many ads feature fantasies of open roads and trips to faraway attractions, not the real world of "I need to sit in rush hour traffic from 6:30 on to get to the Work Factory"

Maybe public transit needs to focus its message on the freedom from drudgery it offers-- you don't have to be staring at the driver in front of you, scanning the traffic reports

[-] Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago

Exactly! This is why I love micromobility and quality public transit so much. With micromobility like electric scooters or bikes, I can zip past traffic in the protected cycle lanes in my city. With the frequent metro service in my city, I know I can show up to the metro station at basically any time and know it'll be a max 5-minute wait for the next train. And when I'm on the train, I can just chill and scroll on my phone or read a book instead of stressing about traffic. The freedom to think about something that isn't traffic.

[-] Schal330@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately as it stands in some places the infrastructure is awful. Take England for example; catching a train to London takes about 20 minutes for me, however there are often 10-15 minute delays that you now have to start accounting for, you also have to sit in a cabin with someone blaring their music that isn't to your taste. Hopefully you're not in a cabin with a toilet, because it's going to stink of shit.

Now the return journey, fingers crossed it's not cancelled otherwise you have another 40 minute wait for the next train! Last train home is a real anxiety inducing experience, will you be getting that train home or has it been cancelled? This is unfortunately all too common here. Sadly because public transport is for profit rather than a necessary service we have someone trying to do the bare minimum to make that money, and then pay the bare minimum to their staff who don't give a shit. It all begins to unravel and people just have a better experience sat in that morning traffic which is a more consistent and pleasant experience to the public transport.

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[-] BodePlotHole@lemmy.world 87 points 1 year ago

I dunno what country you are from, but here in the US of A, the monopolies that own all the train infrastructure make sure to keep trains as public transportation as cost prohibitive as possible.

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[-] throwsbooks@lemmy.ca 51 points 1 year ago

Because as much as trains and buses are great for everyday commuter movement (and having amenities within walking distance is key as well), there's two issues:

  • Changing the infrastructure and zoning of an existing city is much easier said than done. Ripping up concrete, tearing down existing business and homes to increase densification, that's a huge undertaking.
  • Trains never replaced the horse drawn carriage. You can never fully eliminate the need for cars because sometimes you need to move something big like a couch. Even if there's less cars on the road, it'll never be 0, as this also includes things like ambulances, and fire trucks that can't rely on schedules.
[-] CannaVet@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago

Changing the infrastructure and zoning of an existing city is much easier said than done.

Fun how we had zero fucking problem doing it to every city in the country for cars. 🤷

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[-] gramathy@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

That’s what rentals are for. Yeah, there’s always going to be a need for low volume cargo transport and emergency response, but ultimately building cities so 90% of trips can be easily and comfortably accomplished via mass transit should be the goal. Nobody is suggesting transit can replace all cars.

[-] throwsbooks@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago

The image in the post is of a yogi of some sort stating that electric cars are here to save the car industry first, and my impression of it is that it's suggesting that exploring the idea of electric cars is unwise.

And hell yeah, efficient transit and walkable cities are the goal. But while we're working on that goal, we should also focus on electrifying cars! Tackle the crisis in multiple ways. Because there's no way we're gonna stop using cars overnight, and if we can make cars more environmentally friendly while we taper off of them, that's a win.

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[-] Silvus@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Actually most cities had rail laid out and working commuter trains. The car manufacturers bought them up and purposely ran them into the ground to increase car sales. (Think Twitter) they were run like that.

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[-] 001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com 38 points 1 year ago

Trains only run on a specified track and there isn't one near me. A car isn't bound by a track and can go anywhere.

[-] sylveon 21 points 1 year ago

and there isn’t one near me.

That's exactly the problem that this community wants to fix.

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[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Trains could have intercity connections. Walk/bus to the train, ride the train, walk/bus to your destination.

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[-] ansiz@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago

I would just settle for sidewalks, where I live in the USA it's just streets with no sidewalks everywhere. I used to live one mile from where I worked and I could barely even bike there because of crazy car drivers and nowhere to go if someone wasn't paying attention. Rural America is going to be car dependent for a long, long time.

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[-] randint@feddit.nl 31 points 1 year ago
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[-] UhBell@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

You ever try taking your new mattress and bed frame on a train?

[-] justsomeguy@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago

Always hated that argument for big cars. You buy a new bed/mattress/big furniture like once a year. Delivery is maybe 50 bucks. The extra cost of a car big enough to transport that stuff is in the thousands. Somehow everyone gets upset when confronted with delivery fees while being perfectly fine with dishing out cash for a car. Redo the fucking math.

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[-] irkli@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

That's not a valid response to "spend more on trains (public trans, whatever)". No one is suggesting that any one thing be all things -- except car folk. Walk, bike, bus, subway, light rain, taxis, rentals cars, personal cars, personal trucks, commercial trucking, limousines, trains... all of it. Varied and specific to need. Diversity and choice.

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[-] LightDelaBlue@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

since wen this sub is full of carbrain? like bruh.

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[-] Stovetop@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

Because cars aren't stuck to tracks.

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[-] 18107@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I have an electric car because I refuse to pay any more money to fossil fuel companies but still need to drive. I use public transport where possible, but many trips just aren't viable.

It takes me 30 minutes to walk to the nearest shopping centre, but 2 hours to get there by public transport, or 5 minutes by car.

As an average citizen, I don't have the means to build or fund new railway lines. I am, however, lucky enough to be able to refuse to drive fossil fueled vehicles and still survive.

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[-] Calacus@lemmy.fmhy.ml 26 points 1 year ago

In Germany electric trains are standard for local public transportation.

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[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

Electric cars don't solve a lot of the root problems of cars. They still require massive amounts of energy to move thousands of pounds of steel. They also still rely on sprawling roads and parking lots.

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[-] 6mementomori@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

People here are saying a lot that cars are convenient because there's more roads... like... let public transport run on those roads? People seem to literally be unable to realize that things are the way they are now solely because you refuse to believe they can be in any other way and don't solve problems because "it's not practical". Short termed thinking runs too much

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[-] LouNeko@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

Running errands on public transport is an absolute nightmare. Imagine having appointments, hauling bags of groceries and maybe even having a child or pet on a leash, all while trying to catch busses and trains. Public transport is great to get a lot of people to a common place, but that's about it. Its not exactly cheap either. Where I live, a single one direction train ticket costs roughly as much as 2 liters (~½ Gallon) of gas. 2 liters can get me in and out of the downtown area about 3-5 times, depending on traffic. Or once with an hour of parking. If an electric vehicle would fall out of the sky into my lap and the only thing I had to care about is fuel (electricity) I'd definetly would save money and time compared to public transport. Public transport is absolutely necessary, but not the solution for everything.

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[-] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Because trains are massively inconvenient to anyone that isn't living in AND traveling to the most dense of urban areas.

[-] huginn@feddit.it 20 points 1 year ago

American Suburbs are a plague.

The Dutch do suburbs right. You shouldn't have to own 2 cars to be a functional family in the USA.

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[-] Crucible_Fodder@lemmy.zip 22 points 1 year ago

Yeah, but no train takes me from my front door to my job/the movies/my vacation place. And my car works even if the state decides to shut down the trains/buses.

[-] spiphy@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago

You seem to have a serious case of car brain, which is odd because you are commenting in the fuckcars community

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[-] dangblingus@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Because North Americans were tricked by the oil and car companies in the 50s to think that car ownership was part of being human, and now we're addicted to sitting in traffic, breathing fumes, and killing pedestrians in the name of muh freedom.

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[-] Carter@feddit.uk 21 points 1 year ago

Not every journey is possible with public transport. People will still need to lug equipment about in the electric future.

[-] DoctorWheeze@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Trains don’t cover literally every single use case of a car, better keep expanding those highways!

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[-] EthicalAI@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Trains aren’t 100% the answer, but cars should be the last answer. Still we should electrify cars.

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[-] dimlo@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

It’s not remotely easier. Trains carriages are easy to build, but the infrastructure is not. You have to move and extend roads, demolish buildings, lay the rails, build bridges, if you go underground there will be lots of digging and engineering work to protect nearby buildings, and don’t forget about maintenance. It is only profitable when the population is high enough and people have the need to travel to set places en mass. Otherwise it is just fantasy. If you live your whole live around any city Center, I can understand that you are not going to drive . But plenty of people lived in a tiny town of population under 10000people .

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[-] irkli@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

because in our sick culture and capitalist media, cars generate profit and growth and things with social benefit, like public transportation, is seen as a weakness and waste of money. I truly wish it were not so.

[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

This isn't a binary. We need both robust public transportation and electric cars (with an electric grid supplied by renewable energy). Public transportation can't take you anywhere at anytime -- it's all a game of statistics and demand. If 12000 people want to go downtown at 7 pm, and 3 people want to go the opposite direction to get to work to start their night shift, you're going to see buses and trains headed downtown but not the opposite side of town.

Public transportation is best served for commutes and travelling to popular areas, and that's where the majority of emissions are coming from. Cars can supplement with everything else

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[-] HedonismB0t@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago

I would love to have trains and not need a car. Unfortunately that's still a decade away here in California.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

I am all for more public transportation in this country, but it wouldn't help me personally. I live outside of city limits- the closest bus line is two miles away. My work is even further outside city limits, a 10-minute drive south of me down a four-lane highway, past farm fields and into an industrial park.

There's just no way public transportation is going to help me there. And even if I didn't have to do it down a highway, there's no way I'm riding a bike there in the middle of winter.

So do please make public transport more available and expansive. Just know that it still won't be a universal solution. Individual transport is needed by some of us.

I plan to get an electric (not a Tesla) for my next car. I currently drive a hybrid.

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[-] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Because people want a means to travel independently, as in they are in control and not riding with strangers.

/s

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[-] 6mementomori@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

because in lots of countries there is effectively no public transport culture existing, and car companies take advantage of that. it's really just about car culture and taking advantage of people in my opinion

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[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 17 points 1 year ago

I love good public transport. It's great to not have to worry about parking or having to drive. Good cities, like many in Europe and New York in the US, a car isn't really required.

But out in the countryside, a car is a must. Electric cars are massively better for the environment and way cheaper to run (like tenth the cost with a night rate).

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[-] wanderingmagus@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Because places like America are so spread out (by design) that rail networks, especially in the Great Plains and Southwest, are viewed as impractical unless all of their population moved to cities or towns in close proximity to rail lines, and Americans tend to take up a large chunk of the bandwidth.

[-] admiralteal@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There once was a time we built rail first and the cities appeared along it. The early rail capitalists knew that transit seeds development and that's what built MOST of the major cities in the Americas. Somehow we forgot that and have instead come to believe that transit only makes sense if it connects dense, fully-developed places that already exist. It's insipid, but unfortunately makes it past peoples' bullshit filters routinely. It's just part of the trend of cities in North America to give no shits about their future development.

It's total bullshit, though. Most city downtowns can justify small transit easily. Play with the Tom Forth tool and see for yourself. I recommend looking at bus stops per capita for any place you click; that tells a hell of a story about how over or underinvested a community is in car infrastructure. In most of the world, it's something like 200-400 people per bus stop in a city. In the US, you're lucky to see 1200 outside of a few edge cases.

The fact is, most trips are within a few miles of home. There's a lot of space in the world for cars. They're needed to fill in the edge cases. The truly rural areas. The niche needs of a profession. An unusual living situation, or to provide accessibility, or for so many other reasons. But the default should be transit and bike-ped, as it was for virtually all of human history and as it still is for most people in most cities in most of the world.

When we entertain this "The US is too big for transit" stuff, we're reversing the victim and offender and substituting the solution with the problem. To start with, intercity transit isn't even that important a kind of transit. It's useful and nice, but the kind of trips that happen within a few miles of home are the fundamental ones.

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[-] nexguy@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Cars can pick me up 10 feet from my front door(my car). No train tracks within 5 miles of me. I would love if their were tracks closer.

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this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
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Fuck Cars

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