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submitted 1 year ago by alyaza@beehaw.org to c/technology@beehaw.org

this could not be timed worse for Tumblr which is in huge hot water with its userbase already for its CEO breaking his sabbatical to ban a prominent trans user for allegedly threatening him (in a cartoonish manner), and then spending a week personally justifying it increasingly wildly across several platforms. the rumors had already been swirling that this would occur, but this just cements that they were correct

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[-] EldritchFeminity 44 points 1 year ago

For any Tumblr users here, this has already rolled out completely unannounced and is opt-in by default. You need to manually opt out, which can only be done on the desktop website. Odds are good that your data is already being sold to Midjourney and used to train their models.

To do so, click on your blog on the sidebar, click on Blog Settings on the other sidebar on the right, scroll down to the Visibility section, and turn the "Prevent third-party sharing for [your blog]" toggle to ON, not off. If you have any sideblogs, you'll need to manually do this for each of them as well. It's per blog and not account-wide.

[-] SoupBrick@yiffit.net 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I was able to do it from the app and it was already on. I don't remember turning it on, so it might be default?

Edit: Just remembered that I did update the app today, so you might need to do that first.

[-] cupcakezealot 10 points 1 year ago

it's also at blog settings > visibility on desktop

[-] EldritchFeminity 5 points 1 year ago

They made an announcement at some point after flipping the switch that noted that some people would be opted out by default based on their blog settings. I think if your blog is set to mature or has certain search parameters turned off already.

It wasn't on for me or several artists I sent messages to who hadn't even heard that this had happened, and the general discourse around it was pretty clearly upset about it not being opt out by default.

They must've updated the app; at the time I wrote that you couldn't do it through the app.

[-] SoupBrick@yiffit.net 4 points 1 year ago

Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the extra info!

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[-] dutchkimble@lemy.lol 4 points 1 year ago

Not bad that you can opt out though, I don't think reddit will give people an option

[-] DaTingGoBrrr@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago

Wouldn't that be illegal in Europe with GDPR and other consumer protection laws?

[-] dutchkimble@lemy.lol 5 points 1 year ago

I guess their TOS will cover them?

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[-] EldritchFeminity 2 points 1 year ago

If they hadn't given people the option, I don't think the site would be up today. I already saw one artist who wiped their account and left the site within a couple of hours of the announcement.

And they couldn't have picked a worse time to do this after the drama with the CEO banning a popular trans woman permanently off the site last week and threatening to sic the FBI on her for a "threat" of cartoon violence she made after the year-long harassment campaign she suffered had been ignored leading up to her being banned over a transition timeline picture of her face. The CEO then went on to spend hours going into trans women's dms to insist how he's not a transphobe after writing a post about how she had been banned for the "threat," not the picture, even though it had been known for a while by that point that she had been banned for that photo being "nsfw/sexual content," while he eventually started calling her "it." He then topped it off by chasing her and harassing her on Twitter, still insisting that her wishing cartoon violence was a tangible threat and posting the names of accounts she had had at various times on Tumblr. All while he was supposed to be on a 3-month vacation.

Between that and the rumors of this AI deal happening that popped up last week as well, people were already looking for alternative platforms. Allowing people to opt out is the least that they can do if they don't want to run off the users who keep the site running. I don't think many of them are happy that they even have to do that.

[-] inlandempire@jlai.lu 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

How does tumblr keep jumping into bad decisions don't they know their audience lmao

[-] Diotima@kbin.social 31 points 1 year ago

I mean, they let themselves get bought by Yahoo and they banned erotic art. Its like they want to fail.

[-] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago

Then they got bought automattic, the owners of wordpress.com

[-] Diotima@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Yes, I recall when they had a policy of never allowing account deletion.

[-] NoLifeKing@ani.social 30 points 1 year ago

How exactly is WordPress going to do that? Its literally FOSS Software...

[-] squirrel@discuss.tchncs.de 63 points 1 year ago

I guess they're talking about wordpress.com which is a commercial product, and not wordpress.org which is the foss software.

[-] NoLifeKing@ani.social 16 points 1 year ago

Ah ok its the .com forgot that existed.

[-] sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf 7 points 1 year ago

Fuxake! Now I've gotta move my blog?

[-] jarfil@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Your choice. Rememnber to read the TOS of the new place before you do... or self-host and just make sure to keep it secured and comply with data protection legislations. 🤷

[-] Balinares@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago

Correct, AFAIU.

[-] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A whole load of features that should be in the (foss) wordpress core are in the proprietary SaaS plugin called jetpack which is run by wordpress.com. This includes invasive telemetry which they deliberately make hard to disable.

[-] eveninghere@beehaw.org 18 points 1 year ago

It should be illegal for the company to own user-generated contents. They should at least pay the users.

[-] FaceDeer@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago

They're giving you services in exchange for your contents.

Does nobody even think about TOS any more? You don't have to read any specific one, just realize the basic universal truth that no website is going to accept your contents without some kind of legal protection that allows them to use that content.

[-] eveninghere@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago

You must be kidding. You surely haven't heard about Fediverse.

[-] FaceDeer@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Are you serious? We're speaking in the Fediverse right now. It's notable in its difference. Though instances have their own TOSes, so it'd be pretty trivial to set one up to harvest content for AI training as well.

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[-] garrett@infosec.pub 5 points 1 year ago

You pay for WordPress.com though. That’s crazy to offer a paid service and use that data in AI training.

[-] FaceDeer@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

Hardly. They earn money by being paid by their users, but they can earn more money by being paid by their users and also selling their users' data. The goal is more money, so it makes sense for them to do that. It's not crazy.

From the WordPress Terms of Service:

License. By uploading or sharing Content, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable, and non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, distribute, adapt, publicly display, and publish the Content solely for the purpose of providing and improving our products and Services and promoting your website. This license also allows us to make any publicly-posted Content available to select third parties (through Firehose, for example) so that these third parties can analyze and distribute (but not publicly display) the Content through their services.

Emphasis added. They told you what they could do with the content you gave them, you just didn't listen.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across harsh here, but I'm seeing this same error being made over and over again. It's being made frequently right now thanks to the big shakeups happening in social media and the sudden rise of AI, but I've seen it sporadically over the decades that I've been online. So it bears driving home:

  • If you are about to give your content to a website, check their terms of service before you do to see if you're willing to agree to their terms, and if you don't agree to their terms then don't give your content to a website. It's true that some ToS clauses may not be legally enforceable, but are you willing to fight that in court? If you didn't consider your content valuable enough to spend the time checking the ToS when you posted it, that's not WordPress's fault.
  • If you give someone something and they later find a way to make the thing you gave them valuable, it's too late. You gave it to them. They don't owe you a "cut." Check the terms of service.
[-] garrett@infosec.pub 7 points 1 year ago

While you’re not wrong, the social contract we’ve adapted to is that paying means you have some sense of ownership. It’s unreasonable to expect folks to read every Terms of Service with their legalese. Perhaps the new reality we need to accept is that there is no such thing as a good actor on the internet.

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[-] kittykittycatboys 17 points 1 year ago

is there a real fediverse alternative to tumblr yet? i did hear that tumblr was working on activitypub support... but this shows the opposite intentions :<

[-] jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 12 points 1 year ago

That is not opposite, they just want to pull in data from the fediverse automatically so that they can sell it too.

We need some explicit licensing of our public fediverse data otherwise it will just be used to sell it back to us.

[-] tree@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 year ago

Yeah I've seen almost no movement against Tumblr while everyone got very riled up about Meta federation ie fedipact, probably a blindspot bc users have positive associations with tumblr, but it's still an ad/data company all the same.

[-] sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf 9 points 1 year ago

No one actually believes that Tumblr will implement AP

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[-] fracture@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

it's not federated or open, but cohost is a tumblr-alternative run by a group of queer devs who promise not to sell the company or your data. i don't blame you if you don't buy into it, but i do like the platform

https://cohost.org/rc/welcome

edit: based on what /u/FaceDeer@kbin.social has mentioned about the TOS, as well as further elaboration i found in a thread about it (https://twitter.com/rahaeli/status/1588769277053739010), i don't think i can responsibly advocate for cohost, even as a closed/private alternative to tumblr

[-] FaceDeer@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

I wouldn't really trust that promise, frankly. I just checked their terms of service and it has the usual clause:

You must own all rights, title, and interest, including all intellectual property rights, in and to, the User Content you make available on the Services. ASSC requires licenses from you for that User Content to operate the Services. By posting User Content on the Services, you grant ASSC a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your User Content.

Which isn't really surprising, it's standard boilerplate for a reason. They don't want to be caught in a situation where they can't function legally any more. They say they won't sell the company or your data, and they might even believe that right now, but who knows what the future might bring? They have the ability to do so if the circumstances arise.

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[-] kittykittycatboys 5 points 1 year ago

i do know cohost, but id prefer fediversed and foss stuff ideally cuz like walled gardens n stuff >w<

[-] petrescatraian@libranet.de 3 points 1 year ago

@alyaza @kittykittycatboys Friendica, to some degree. It's pretty flexible, and you can have something like a basic blog. You do depend on the server admin to install the themes that you need, if they're not present. Once they're installed, you can switch between them at will.

There is even a Tumblr add-on if there's anyone you need to follow there.

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[-] Computerchairgeneral@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago

So after banning adult content a few years ago, Tumblr decided to shoot itself in the other foot? It feels like the people in charge are actively trying to drive off the site's users.

[-] flumph@programming.dev 18 points 1 year ago

Fun fact, it's been two different groups of people in charge! Yahoo! was responsible for removing adult content and then sold it to Automattic for pennies on the dollar. Automattic then went through several rounds of different poor moderation before the CEO himself stepped up to share GDPR violating information on Twitter. Now we're adding AI!

[-] moitoi@feddit.de 11 points 1 year ago

Think AI as the new tool to make money quickly after crypto, NFT, etc.

[-] petrescatraian@libranet.de 10 points 1 year ago

@alyaza Freaking hell, is there any more mainstream social media platform left that does not and does not plan to sell your data to an AI already?!? *sigh*

[-] Rozauhtuno 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This sucks, but I'm also morbidly curious of how unhinged an AI trained on Tumblr posts would be.

[-] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 6 points 1 year ago

First nazi otherkin AI.

[-] yessikg 8 points 1 year ago

Glad I have lemmy and sharkey in these trying times

[-] renard_roux@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

At least it's not going to get sold here, or on Mastodon I guess, but it's not like the data couldn't get scraped by an unethical actor, right? 🤔

[-] Omniraptor@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

At least this way they'll have to work to scrape it instead of getting it for "free"

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[-] cupcakezealot 6 points 1 year ago

sincerely considering spinning up a sharkey instance as a tumblr alternative because fuck tumblr

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[-] survivalmachine@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

I don't know what Train AI Tools are, but I'd be ok with them if they had the temperament of Thomas the Train rather than Blain the Mono. How do we know which Train AI is buying our data?

[-] TimTheEnchanter@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Blaine is a pain, and that’s the truth.

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this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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