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Can I hang kitchen cabinet on my subconstruction I built? (lemmy.world)
submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by Grogon@lemmy.world to c/homeimprovement@lemmy.world
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Hey!

Currently doing drywall myself and I am using 6x6 cm squared timber around my outside walls.

The problem is they aren't as stable as the other walls inside the house because of the 6x6 cm squared timbers that are about 30cm distance from each other.

I will screw my plasterboards on the squared timber and only one plasterboard, not two.

I have two pictures of what my construction looks like from far and one from close.

Maybe someone can give me advice before I install the plasterboard onto it.

The only problem I currently see is finding the subconstruction once I put the plasterboards back on. But other than that, if I find them can I install the cabinets safely?

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[-] guyrocket@kbin.social 51 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

In this thread: OP scaring the Americans because they think what they see in OP's pictures is the extent of the wall.

If fact, OP is just building out from an existing wall that is behind the OSB in his pictures.

Grogon, ask a local carpenter. I don't think Americans understand your German construction.

[-] scrion@lemmy.world 34 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I'll answer this one in German since this is my time to shine. Let me just say, the wall is perfectly fine, what we see is just another layer of OSB board for ease of installation on top of the actual wall behind it (which is well framed and insulated).

Dies ist ein sehr unterhaltsamer thread fuer mich, da ich beide Seiten verstehen kann.

Auf der Webseite von Wolf Haus ist die Installationsebene aus OSB zu sehen, die angegebene Punktlast ist 70kg pro Schraube. Wenn du sicherstellst, das deine Schrauben durch die Kanthoelzer in die OSB-Platte gehen, solltest du dich auf diese Angaben verlassen koennen, also eine Schraube haelt dann 70kg.

Deutschland hat selbstverstaendlich auch eine Norm fuer Kuechenmoebel, DIN 68930. Da bekommst du ein Gefuehl dafuer, wie schwer Kuechenschraenke werden koennen. Die Nachbarn in der Schweiz verwenden die Norm SN EN 14749, zum Vergleich. Es ist nicht ungewoehnlich, einen Schrank (wall cabinet) mit 120kg Belastung zu testen.

Beachte bitte auch die Distanz der Schrauben, man darf nicht zu nah oder zu weit setzen. Ich habe das hier auf Deutsch gefunden:

https://www.huettemann.de/lagerkatalog/download/osb4_belastung.pdf

Ich wuerde immer mit einem margin zur Sicherheit rechnen, vielleicht 20%. Eine Schraube haelt dann also 0.8x70kg = 56kg. Wenn du die Distanzen beachtest und dir das Gewicht deines Schrankes ausrechnest und auf entsprechend viele Schrauben verteilst, solltest du safe sein.

Ich gehe natuerlich davon aus, das die Installationsebene von Wolf Haus fachgerecht konstruiert wurde.

[-] Grogon@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

Super danke !!! : )

[-] scrion@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

Noch etwas: die beste Methode ist wirklich, sich mit Bleistift vor der Montage der Gipskartonplatten die Lage der Hoelzer zu markieren.

Falls du das an einer Stelle vergessen hast, kannst du spaeter immer noch einen stud finder verwenden. Ich kenne die amerikanischen brands, habe aber mittlerweile auch solche Geraete gebraucht und getestet.

Der gruene stud finder von Bosch ist trash, aber der GSM120 aus der professional Reihe funktioniert gut:

https://www.bosch-professional.com/de/de/products/gms-120-0601081000

Findet auch elektrische Leitung und Rohre

[-] Grogon@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

Ja voll cool!

Ich habe alle Wände abfotografiert und Abmessungen der Lattungen (30cm Abstände) gemerkt. Aber das es sowas gibt ist ja echt wahnsinn. Danke!

[-] elbarto777@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Aw come on! I want to learn! I just don't want to learn German first.

Edit: D'oh! I had missed the context. All good.

[-] scrion@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

Yeah, but they made the thread and mentioned not speaking English well enough and they were really getting confused and anxious by a bunch of us claiming the only way to turn this situation around is to demolish the building - at that point, some helpful reassurance was in order.

The gist of what I said was: the wall is fine, the manufacturer assures a point load of 70kg for the installation layer (so basically 70kg per screw), looking at some local regulations will give you an idea of how heavy a kitchen wall cabinet can get (going at it from this angle is helpful in case you need to discuss liabilities at some point), distribute that load over screws mounted at proper distances, add a safety margin and you should be good.

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[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 31 points 10 months ago

There's about one person in this thread that knows what is going on. Ignore pretty much everyone else.

[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 10 points 10 months ago

As is tradition

[-] Grogon@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

It didnt allow me to post two pictures.

[-] Grogon@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

[-] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

Are those studs not sitting on a plate?

[-] Pohl@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yeah there is so much crazy shit going on in these pictures I am doubting my own understanding and I was a rough carpenter for several years.

Why are the studs on the flat? Where the hell is that sill plate? No headers over the windows? No cripples under the windows? Is that stud next to the window opening cut at the bottom? Why are the studs spaced so… creatively

I could probably spot a few more but I honestly think I just don’t know what this building is or where it is. Clearly not in US and maybe it’s a shed or something and not a dwelling. Too much I don’t know to talk shit.

Edit: is there like an actual structural wall on the exterior that we cannot see? Maybe all this stuff is just to provide structure for drywall and electric. That would maybe make sense.

[-] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

From the links he sent, it looks like he’s just building a non-structural insulating wall on the interior which allows for running electrical lines.

[-] roguetrick@kbin.social 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yeah, this isn't framing per his link. That OSB is the interior of the structural wall and he's just building out with 6x6 cm (what we'd think of as 2x2 inch) to hang his (likely 1/4" equivalent) drywall and provide electrical service.

https://www.wolfhaus.info/images/DETAILS/wandkonstruktion_oekoline.jpg

[-] Pohl@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

I think you’re right. If this picture was taken in the US or Canada, I would be panicked for OP. But honestly I thing it might be something we don’t do here so it looks crazy, but only to us.

[-] scrion@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

You're right. After moving to Germany, I can tell there is nothing wrong with this picture, but it sure looks crazy out of context.

Interestingly enough, most residential houses I looked at had solid, steel reinforced concrete walls everywhere.

[-] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

If this picture was taken in the US or Canada, I would be panicked for OP

Same tbh.

[-] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

Oh, I see. Still not sure I’d hang cabinets from that.

[-] roguetrick@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago

I think it just depends on how he's attaching it. If it's going into the top and sill plates behind the OSB, there's not really much of a chance of it going anywhere.

[-] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

But those gaps at the base, where the stud should be abutting a sill plate…what will the drywall be attached to?

[-] roguetrick@kbin.social 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The sill plate is actually behind the OSB and looks thicker than anything we use. I don't honestly know if there's studs back there too, but I'd imagine so. I really don't know how that wall is constructed.

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[-] seathru@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Holy shit, is that load bearing plywood on the far wall (with the rectangle window).

My friend, you need help from someone that knows what they are doing and familiar with local codes before proceeding any further.

[-] Pipoca@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

That wall isn't structural. There's a much thicker wall behind it; this is just a thin internal layer for running electric and mounting drywall.

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[-] Death_Equity@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

They are not American, Germans build way different so how they do things does not make sense without understanding what is going on.

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[-] roguetrick@kbin.social 3 points 10 months ago

All of the OSB is the inside of the already constructed wall. It's interior fascia, essentially, with insulation behind it.

[-] Grogon@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

Here is a picture of the wall how it looked when the house got delivered

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

~~My advice? Knock that "wall" down and pay a proper carpenter to build a proper one. Your studs are too small, they don't go all the way down, you have no room for insulation, and if you try to hang cabinets on that thing, you're going to kill someone when the whole sumbitch collapses.~~

My bad, I didn't know what I was looking at. See OP's diagram to learn more about this, and ignore my ignorance.

[-] Grogon@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I cant knock that wall down. Its like 40 cm thick.

https://www.wolf-haus.de/ihr-mehrwert/mehr-holz/

Maybe if you see this you can help me :(

So I am attaching 6x6 cm squared timber onto an existing wall that is 40 cm thick

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[-] scrion@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

Please have a look at the images he posted, the wall is absolutely fine. The images he posted are just the inner installation layer, the structural wall and insulation are behind that.

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

It's just a subwall that's adding a thermal break. Presumably it's anchored to the existing wall.

[-] someguy3@lemmy.ca 6 points 10 months ago

How are you getting any insulation in a wall that thin?

[-] Grogon@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

Insulation is already behind the squared timber.

The wall is actually behind the frame I am putting on the wall. It is an installation level for electricity and I can hang my plasterboards on that.

The insulation is 240mm thick behind the Plywood. That is where the vapor barrier is and the other plywood.

[-] Grogon@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

https://www.wolf-haus.de/ihr-mehrwert/mehr-holz/

If you scroll down:

The wall is complete. I am doing step 5 (6x6 cm timber) and tthe plasterboard. Behind the timber that I am putting on the wall is about 33 cm thick

[-] someguy3@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago

Looking at the pictures, I think you should stop immediately and hire a professional.

[-] Grogon@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

I didn't do much yet.

I only attached a few 6x6 cm squared timber onto the main wall that is 33cm thick currently. But I will ask my construction dude.

[-] Grumpydaddy@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

We use three horizontal strips of thin flat stock metal attached to the studs with truss head screws before sheetrock to provide solid blocking at top and bottom of upper cabinets and also at top of base cabinets. The stock can be 20 or 22 ga. And 6" wide. You still may want to catch studs as best you can. I posted a picture showing the two strips that hold the upper cabinets. I'm not sure what the metric equivalent to gauge would be but you guys probably have something similar.

[-] Grumpydaddy@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

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this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2024
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