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submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by Illecors@lemmy.cafe to c/mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world

EDIT: you guys have dug up some truly horrible pisstakes :D Thank you for those.

To the serious folk - relax a little. This is Mildly Infuriating, not I'm dying if this doesn't stop. As a non-native speaker I was taught a certain way to use the language. The rules were not written down by me, nor the teachers - it was done by the native folk. Peace!

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[-] cdf12345@lemm.ee 99 points 11 months ago
[-] livus@kbin.social 50 points 11 months ago

@cdf12345 if you really want to infuriate people that should be "I could care fewer."

[-] ITypeWithMyDick@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

Bastard stole my line

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[-] Malix@sopuli.xyz 90 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)
[malix@derp ~]$ fewer .bashrc 
bash: fewer: command not found

:(

[-] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 17 points 11 months ago

$alias fewer = 'less'

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[-] redxef@feddit.de 29 points 11 months ago
-bash: fewer: command not found
[-] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 23 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)
$ alias fewer=less
$ which fewer
fewer: aliased to less
[-] cloudless@feddit.uk 28 points 11 months ago

Your post is fewer than 60 minutes old.

[-] viralJ@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'm also a non-native speaker and I've also been taught to speak a certain way ("you and I are going" but "he saw you and me"; don't split infinitives; don't end sentences with prepositions, etc.), but then I read Steven Pinker's The Language Instinct and - even more relevant here - The Sense of Style. We've been taught to use language a certain way, but our teachers were following the prescriptivist school of thought. You say these rules were written by native folk, but it's often (if not usually) the native folk that say less when they "should" be saying fewer.

I know you said it's only mildly infuriating to you, but if proper use of language is something dear to your heart (as it is to mine) - I really recommend the above books as I think this is something not worth to get even mildly infuriated about. The border between less and fewer is fuzzier than you think and - in the words of Pinker - once you really master the distinction - that's one fewer thing for you to worry about.

Edit: typo

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[-] Siethron@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago

I couldn't give fewer of a shit

[-] stoy@lemmy.zip 20 points 11 months ago

I have used less several times when I should have used more...

[-] HatchetHaro 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

when people write should of instead of should have

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[-] random9@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago

I've corrected people a few times on this, but then I looked it up, and from what I understand, since language is defined by usage, saying "less" when technically it should be "fewer" is still generally correct. It still sounds alright to me, though oddly the reverse (using "fewer" when it should be "less") sounds fewer (aka less) correct to me.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

I’m a linguist and this is the answer. The correct usage is however people use it, not how a book editor, dictionary, or your third grade teacher think it should be used.

Example: “there’s” for both plural and singular rather than “there are” versus “there’s/there is”.

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[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

People thinking the English language is static and has to follow rules.

This Is English, my friend. The top dog of non-proscriptive languages where meanings change over time and reflect current usage.

Want to force everyone to follow the rules?

Start speaking French.

[-] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago

It is also a tool to allow common understanding between a diverse group of people. I’m not saying that less/fewer is an important rule. However ‘anything goes’ is going to have an impact on people’s understanding of bothe you and your message

[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'm not saying anything goes either but if people around you use less and fewer interchangeably, there is no communication breakdown at all.

Do you know the correct times to use practice vs practise?

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[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

Bash says that the fewer command can't be found...

[-] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 7 points 11 months ago

less is more, though!

[-] YeetPics@mander.xyz 15 points 11 months ago

Sorry, I'll do that fewer.

[-] GrievingWidow420@feddit.it 13 points 11 months ago

bash: fewer: command not found

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[-] Eyelessoozeguy@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

I've tried more instead of less, I will have to try fewer and see how it works, which repo is fewer on?

[-] HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works 12 points 11 months ago

So what you're saying is we need to use 'less' fewer?

[-] cloudless@feddit.uk 5 points 11 months ago

Less is more unless fewer less is no more no less.

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[-] HeartyBeast@kbin.social 10 points 11 months ago

The thing I find interesting is how the mixing of less and fewer, is broadly accepted, whereas nobody tends to use ‘much’ and ‘many’ interchangeably.

I’m not quite sure why much/many is do conserved when fewer/less isn’t.

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[-] MonsiuerPatEBrown@reddthat.com 10 points 11 months ago

common usage is not the enemy

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

Confusion is the enemy of communication. Clarity of language is critical to being understood. Correctly using "fewer" and "less" could theoretically provide context clues about what type of thing you're counting, but you will be understood irregardless of which word you choose to use.

[-] ngdev@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

For all intents and purposes this comment triggered me

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[-] DeltaTangoLima@reddrefuge.com 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Hmmm - maybe I should be using "fewer" less times than I should be using "less" fewer times...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[-] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Ok so, as a native English speaker, let me inform you, that whatever you think is a rule in English, isn't. It's a guideline. It's a hard language because we lack structure. The native teachers are teaching you the basic guidelines, not actual conversational English, which varies heavily on location, and social group.

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[-] Droggelbecher@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

If you're able to correct them, you've understood what they're trying to say. So what's the harm?

[-] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

I refuse to acknowledge anyone's struggle with common words like that except lose and loose.

Unlike less and fewer which are basically interchangeable unless you're being pedantic lose and loose are two completely different words entirely

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[-] DirigibleProtein@aussie.zone 6 points 11 months ago

Less people should be using “less” instead of “fewer”. 😜

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[-] Tristaniopsis@aussie.zone 6 points 11 months ago

Totally agree. I need to bite my tongue when I hear it.

Also see: ‘Very unique’ And ‘jealous’ when they mean ‘envious’.

[-] Lath@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

Very unique was originally an insult veiled as an unintentionally incorrect usage of the expression. The hidden meaning could be explained as "I think it's retarded but I don't want to say that in public."

Source: chick movies.

As for Jealous vs Envious. Are you sure it isn't merely your perception that's mistaking the use?
I know I tend to confuse the two because one wants something that resembles what you have and the other wants what you have directly.
So the perception of those involved can mix up the two concepts in this regard.

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Same. It's like a tic, I'm compelled to mutter "fewer" in my mind, or else I can't keep paying attention

[-] elfin8er@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago
[-] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 7 points 11 months ago

Well, you bastard. You're doing well!!!

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this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2024
192 points (100.0% liked)

Mildly Infuriating

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