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submitted 1 year ago by jaykay@lemmy.zip to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

Hi everyone! Since I was absolutely fucked by Skiff (thank fuck I didn’t pay for it) I’m looking for a new email provider :) I’m not sure I like how proton is transforming into a full on suit, I only need email. Any other recommendations or is proton my only choice really?

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A provider having more than 50 users and offering more than one service doesn't make them evil. Use Proton. They are the best, and they're not likely to disappear. If you intentionally seek out small services because you think being an underdog is some sort of privacy merit badge, you'll get "absolutely fucked" over and over again.

Also, you should consider paying for the products you use to encourage sane and user-friendly business models. But that's a different discussion altogether.

[-] jaykay@lemmy.zip 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It’s not about “using an underdog”, I just like “do one thing and do it well” philosophy you know. I don’t need drives, calendars, vpn, password manager, in one thing. I want a simple email provider that’s it.

Yeah skiff wasn’t like that but it seemed not too push it as much, just “hey it’s there you can use it” not full on products. Maybe I’m just being stupid about it idk

[-] Atemu@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 year ago

You can simply ignore all of these other features. Proton offers an email-only plan.

[-] jaykay@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

True… People also recommend having your own domain so I can switch easily in the future. Having my surname seems a bit… un-privacy-like lol Any recommendations for that?

[-] Aachen@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Paid subscription of Proton bundles SimpleLogin, an email aliasing service. So you can have your personal email with your surname, and when you want to sign up to some shady corpo site, you give them a randomly generated email address using SimpleLogin. All emails sent to that alias email will be automatically forwarded to your personal email. You can then disable the alias email anytime and stop receiving emails.

[-] hertg@infosec.pub 6 points 1 year ago

I have both, a personal domain with my name and also an anonymous generic domain. I use the anonymous one for 90+% of my online stuff, and use a random unique address for every service (you can set up a wildcard in proton, so *@domain.org lands in the same inbox). I would recommend that for two reasons: if you own your anonymous domain you can move your mailprovider anytime (as opposed to using some email masking service), using unique addresses for every service enables you to easily figure out which one leaked your address if you start getting spam. Just make sure to use a generic name for the domain and dont get an exotic TLD (just get a .com .org or something). Some of the non traditional TLDs may negatively impact your spam scores, and its easy to find a .com or .org when you can literally choose any domain name you want.

[-] lemmyreader@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You can have your own custom email domain and for the use cases you want to be "anonymous" use simplelogin or addy.io on top of that.

[-] vox@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 year ago

proton requires them to use their software and adds a footer with protonmail ads to all of your emails without an option to disable it without paying up

I think you need to read up on the reasons why services like GMail and Facebook are free.

[-] vox@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

yes but they shouldn't be hiding that fact deep in the settings
also I don't care about encryption and stuff if it prevents me from using my favorite mail client without installing their bridge software

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[-] bugsmith@programming.dev 28 points 1 year ago

Another vote here for Fastmail. I also like Posteo, Mailbox and mxroute, but these are not as fully featured - which may be perfect for you if you're after email only. What I really like about Fastmail is that on top of being a customer-focused business (rather than a customer is the product business), they offer a really snappy web interface with excellent search - and they are extremely compliant with email standards, building everything on JMAP.

I do not like Proton or Tutanota. I have used both, including using Proton as my main email account for the past two years. I do believe they are probably the best when it comes to encryption and privacy standards, but for me it's at far too much cost. Encrypted email is almost pointless - the moment you email someone who isn't using a Proton (or PGP encryption), then the encryption is lost. Or even if they just forward an email to someone outside your chain. I would argue that if you need to send a message to someone with enough sensitivity to require this level of encryption, email is the wrong choice of protocol.

For all that Proton offer, it results in broken email standard compliance, awful search capability and reliance on bridge software or being limited to their WebUI and apps. And it's a shame, because I really like the company and their mission.

[-] thegreekgeek@midwest.social 4 points 1 year ago

Don't even need proton for that, just use delta chat.

[-] solrize@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

I'm happy with fastmail. Remember that must people you email are probably on Google (Gmail) so there is only so much you can accomplish in terms of email privacy whatever you do.

[-] totallynotarobot@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What's your objection to Proton? You don't have to use any of the other products, and the free tier is perfectly usable last I checked (granted many years ago). Not sure what your concern is

Edit: downvoting without replying doesn't tell us what the concern is. Y'all weird

[-] muix@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 1 year ago

Let me recommend Migadu, as email privacy is kind of a difficult topic. They offer complete email freedom for a very reasonable price; $20 ($10 for students) a year. They explain my main reasoning why I would avoid Proton:

When an email provider rations email address of your own domain name-space at a fee, they are asking you to hand them over control of your name-space. There is zero cost associated with additional email addresses and it is time you learn about it.

When email provider does not offer you standard email protocols that work with standard email clients, they want to lock you in for good. You are tied to using the dedicated applications offered by provider. The freedom of using a better or more suitable application is taken away from you. Protocols were standardized for a reason and today there are hundreds of email clients built for users with different needs.

When email provider alters messages data in non-standard format, they deny you data portability and with it freedom of changing providers.

Email is a collective effort of messaging interoperability. It is built around open, public standards and runs mostly on open source software maintained by folks believing in an open Internet, privacy and personal freedoms. Let’s not give away our freedoms for some Kool-Aid.

[-] rcbrk@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah, there's a distinct lack of nonsense with Migadu.

[-] banazir@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Check out Posteo. It's affordable and focuses on privacy.

[-] Kissaki@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've been using Posteo for years. I can recommend.

I 💜 Protonmail. I generally like proton as a company.This video has really gained my trust for them as a privacy focussed services provider.

[-] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 4 points 1 year ago

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This video

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[-] lemmyreader@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Posteo, mailbox.org, Tuta.

[-] Confound4082@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago

Plus one for Proton, I don't use their password manager, but their other products I've been using and been pleased with. I consider it well worth the cost.

[-] catculation@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 year ago

I recently switched to skiff from proton as the skiff's free tier is offering what proton's mail plus plan. And now they are shutting down their services.

[-] Swarfega@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Their free tier storage offering was amazing. I honestly couldn't see how they could offer so much for free. I was very tempted at the time but chose proton. Although I think I may move to Fastmail when my renewal is due.

[-] Moonrise2473@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

I honestly couldn’t see how they could offer so much for free

We just saw that it wasn't profitable and the business plan was to find an exit strategy via acquisition

[-] jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 7 points 1 year ago

I found http://mxroute.com/ they offer sane prices for unlimited emails and domains. I'm in the middle of switching to them.

[-] Oha@lemmy.ohaa.xyz 7 points 1 year ago

Been using Tuta for a few years and its great. Can use catch-all with my own Domain

[-] flathead@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

Linux, dovecot, postfix and a large quantity of pain medication.

[-] Engywuck@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In my humble opinion, unless you use your account only to receive emails but also to send them, your provider has limited effect on your privacy. That's why I personally don't have a use for Tuta, Proton and other similar, super private services (mind you, I'm not saying they aren't good). That said, I've been a happy customer of mailbox.org for quite a few years and I found them reliable and cheap (if you don't need a custom domain). Same for Posteo, I guess. At the moment, I'm a paying customer for Zoho email, with quite a few custom domains abd I'm fairly happy. They have a free tier as well and their privacy policy looks good to me.

[-] Ohh@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago

My 2 ¢: Email is inherently not private. With tls you have encryption in transit, but as soon as the data hits the server no metadata is ever encrypted. With pgp you can encrypt the message content, sure, but not with many of the advanced features we expect from e.g. Signal and matrix. Therefore it doesn't really matter if you use proton ot tuta, unless you exclusively mail other proton/tuta users.

I am extremely happy with purelymail.com. extremely cheap and versatile. I also use mailfence.com but that's only because i'd like to have two different servers for something as important as mail. Been a customer with purely for probably 3+ years . Mailfence probably 6+ years. Have seen two small outages with mailfence. None with purely.

[-] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

I'm curious what's the advanced feature?

[-] Ohh@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

I am no expert, so this is just my understanding: pgp encrypts the message, with the the recipients public key. Once the private key is compromised , bruforced or cracked, all messages are compromised. With signal, and all the other apps that uses signal protocol, it's different. Here, the key is renewed often (i think for each message) and the key is device dependant. Therefore if the key is compromised no previous messages are compromised and neither are communications with other people. This is what e2e means, and pgp is not that. Also the key or self is harder to crack I think, but i am not sure how strong signals elliptic curve crypto is finished to a 4096 rsa key.

Tldr: pgp is a simple encryption at rest, that can be cracked once and for all. Signal et. All is e2e encrypted and much harder to compromise one and for all.

[-] Imprint9816@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 year ago

Proton, Tuta, or mailbox.org are good choices.

[-] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

If you don't need anonymity you could just buy a domain with a single email and use your own email app SMTP. I think it's cheaper than most email providers.

[-] eramseth@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago
[-] MetaCubed@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I was pretty happy with tuta, but I just switched to proton for the IMAP/SMTP support.

[-] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

There isn't. Self hosting is the only way you can send email without giving your data. All email provider have your data, assuming there is a provider that is private is lying yourself. Even if they have some kilograms of privacy policy.

[-] Swarfega@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Regardless of who you choose. Use an aliasing service. It makes moving to a new provider/email address a breeze on the future. It took me days to go around updating all my 200 sites online. If I ever move from proton it will take me 5 minutes to ensure all my sites now go to my new provider.

My only tip would be to create a new domain rather than using a shared one. This will prevent some sites from blocking you from using an alias.

[-] KarnaSubarna@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Email alias indeed helps to avoid spam and helps you to assume separate identity per site, but won't help in any way to stop mail provider/server from processing your email data for user profiling / targeted ad purpose.

Buying email domain and self-hosting is only the full proof way from privacy POV, but it is really difficult target to accomplish. A privacy respecting email hosting + alias should be next ideal choice, IMO.

[-] Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Check out YUNOhost. It's an open source operating system for servers which comes with email already set up. You can install it on a cheap VPS or home server and easily manage it graphically via web portal.

[-] LunchEnjoyer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I just came across this one too, seems rather promising! https://forwardemail.net/en

[-] pewgar_seemsimandroid 1 points 1 year ago

proton ,tuta(nota) and posteo.de

this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
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