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Tr(rule)am (midwest.social)

submitted 9 months ago by mossy_capivara@midwest.social to c/196

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[-] foyrkopp@lemmy.world 146 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Depending on your definition, this actually is not peak performance.

Subways are.

Obviously, the tunnels are absurdly expensive, but nothing moves as many people as quickly around a city as a subway.

They're also extremely reliable, meaning people are even more likely to actually use them, and their above-ground footprint is essentially zero.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 95 points 9 months ago

Subways are for mobility (moving large numbers of people rapidly); trams are for access (getting you close to your destination). They complement each other and a well-designed city would have both.

[-] InfiniteStruggle@sh.itjust.works 21 points 9 months ago

STOP I can only get so erect

You're going to make me write a cute green-urbania fiction of my self-insert walking around a beautiful city with parks everywhere and using the sub-rails to go far distances and then get on cute retro san francisco style over land trams to make my way to walk-only brick roads and then walk to some book store, the corners piled high with books, with books stacked outside the store under a cloth awning, owned by a wise old man of unclear nationality who spends his days reading the books he sells, who knows me well enough to offer a glass of tea.

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[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 50 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I have to disagree. Accessibility of underground transport is abhorrent. Changing from underground to aboveground buses and trains is also shit. The space use of public transport in comparison to car infrastructure is completely negligible. If anything put all the cars underground as they are ugly and stinky. This picture also give you happy chemical because it is green and is not another dead, sealed asphalt hellscape.

[-] reev@sh.itjust.works 15 points 9 months ago

I quite like underground transport, the stations can be absolutely stunning.

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[-] datelmd5sum@lemmy.world 23 points 9 months ago

But I like watching things outside the trams.

[-] Kedly@lemm.ee 15 points 9 months ago

Skytrains my dude, similar footprint, same tech, and I assume it costs significantly less, and is able to dip underground when there absolutely ISNT the footprint for it above ground

[-] maxxxxpower@lemmy.ca 16 points 9 months ago

Monorail!

[-] Kedly@lemm.ee 12 points 9 months ago

While monorails are cool, skytrains are literally just trains and thus insanely hard to beat for cost vs efficiency

[-] spiffy_spaceman@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Monorail!

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[-] uriel238 9 points 9 months ago

If San Francisco informs, light rail streetcars are a gateway to underground subways. It gets the city in the habit of getting on a railcar to go places while the greater infrastructure (the tunnels) are built.

MUNI is mixed undeground and street. BART is over and under and being extended to this day.

[-] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 9 points 9 months ago

Tunnels also don't take away space from people. This nice looking tramway could be a nice promenade for people instead.

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[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 99 points 9 months ago

I cannot understand people that argue their 6 lane stroad is better than this in any way. It may feel more convenient for some, but at what cost?

[-] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 66 points 9 months ago

Probably because public transit requires people to be around other people, and they'd rather get around in their little bubble without interaction (except giving a BMW the finger).

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 51 points 9 months ago

This but also a lack of experiencing good transit

[-] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 15 points 9 months ago

True, but I'm just going off of my experience as an American. Too many people are so antisocial that the idea of sharing space with other strangers is foreign, mostly because they've lived so long without it. Obviously this isn't true in places like NYC, but in Los Angeles you'd have a hell of a time convincing people to give up their cars.

[-] reev@sh.itjust.works 12 points 9 months ago

I think a lack of being in public spaces creates the antisocial "uncomfortable around other people" issues that have been growing. Sprawl kills communities!

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[-] Incandemon@lemmy.ca 10 points 9 months ago

For me its mostly the time factor. A 45 min drive takes 2 to 3 hours by transit in my city, or longer one way. And thats if busses show up and make connections. I would love to take transit but can't make it work in a any that would mean I still get to sleep.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 30 points 9 months ago

That is because your transit is underfunded and under prioritized. Good, viable transit is as fast or faster than cars.

[-] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 19 points 9 months ago

underfunded and under prioritized

Or designed and scheduled by incompetence

[-] Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 9 months ago

Japanese transit it a sight to behold. Experienced it firsthand. In the greater Tokyo area taking a car was literally always just a 3 or 4 minute time save AND this was including the walk from anywhere I was at, to the sub, to my destination. If you accounted for parking time, since I didnt see much easily accesible parking over there, it was probably quicker to take public transit. If I lived over there I legit wouldn't bother owning a car and I say this as someone who currently has one and really likes it.

There's no fucking public sitting areas though so that sucks.

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[-] Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world 91 points 9 months ago

Just today I saw this list of the largest tram networks in history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_tram_and_light_rail_transit_systems_ever

The largest existing one is Melbourne, at a little over 250 km of tramways. Los Angeles at its peak had over 1700 km of tramways.

Truly insane what we tore up. A crime against humanity.

[-] Rolando@lemmy.world 47 points 9 months ago

Truly insane what we tore up.

Didn't know much about this so just looked it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy

[-] Holzkohlen@feddit.de 13 points 9 months ago

Why does every problem ever always boil down to capitalism?

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[-] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 33 points 9 months ago

The combination of those trees and overhead power lines might be problematic in some climates, but overall, I'm all for getting as much greenery into city centers as possible.

[-] MurrMurr@lemmy.world 23 points 9 months ago

This is at Helsinki, Finland. So all kind of weather is present here.. Well except hot and dry 😄

[-] arken@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

On the other hand, there's a billion saunas around the city if you want hot and dry

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[-] Jentu 29 points 9 months ago

Off camera, there's a lawn mower driving as fast as it can away from the approaching tram

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago

I'm stuck in stupid America, but my British friends tell me of regular rail delays because of leaves on the rails. I assume that isn't a problem with these trains, so why is this a problem in the UK?

[-] runeko@programming.dev 17 points 9 months ago

It's a big problem for anything using rails. https://youtu.be/ZEuFSw-CMzU?feature=shared

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[-] L3mmyW1nks@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Maybe they're just taking a piss? Same for the whole train system shutting down due to a single snowflake.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

I've been looking into it since I posted that and apparently it makes the rails slippery and the trains have to slow down because of it and trains have to slow down because of it.

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/leaves-line

So I guess the answer is that these trains have to slow down too.

[-] 96VXb9ktTjFnRi@feddit.nl 18 points 9 months ago

This looks more like a tram than a train and they don't go fast anyway, so I don't think they'd need to slow down.

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[-] 4am@lemm.ee 14 points 9 months ago

One small problem. Pantographs and tree lines.

It is beautiful though.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago

Eh, it's nothing that actually having enough budget to fund proper maintenance (e.g. tree pruning) can't solve. Presumably, any city on-the-ball enough to build decent infrastructure like this in the first place has got that covered.

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[-] Allero@lemmy.today 14 points 9 months ago

What's not to like?

[-] schnokobaer@lemmy.ml 14 points 9 months ago

I'm looking at unadulterated communism here and I hate it! Remove the green and the tracks and let honest working people park their lifted F 350 to go grocery shopping and bring little Braendin to school!

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[-] leanleft@lemmy.ml 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

devils advocate:

branches would fall in the tracks
wild animals might populate and then get harmed.

not citing pros
both can probably be mostly solved fairly easily i think

[-] applewithacape@feddit.de 27 points 9 months ago

-concidering it is in the middle of a city there are basialy no wild animals -this isnt more dangerous to the remaining few than any 4 lane Road -there are city maintenance workers who take care of the trees -during realy bad storms there are also branches on the streets

1 billion different advantages

The actuall biggest problem would be leaves on the rails in autumn.

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[-] Klear@sh.itjust.works 27 points 9 months ago

"Would"? The picture isn't fake, plenty of tram tracks look like this.