“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
― John F. Kennedy
Remarks on the first anniversary of the Alliance for Progress, 13 March 1962
In 1962 there were no "lethal autonomous weapons".
We all know what happens when you're not even allowed to protest for your grievances
Yes, slavery. It's been around for ages.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding what protests are, but it seems to me that if you don’t have the right to disruptively protest then you don’t have the right to protest.
I guess it depends on the level of disruption. Standing in the street is a little different from dismantling a bridge for example.
But if you can dismantle a bridge without hurting anyone, and do so in protest of something, that’d be impressive and should be allowed.
I agree it'd be impressive. But is making thousands of people drive more hours every day due to increased congestion hurting them? In the US, most people wouldn't have another option than to just sit in traffic much longer.
I think making people rethink what they "don't have another option" for would be a great reason to disruptively protest something. Like in protest of cars, a bunch of people block the roads only allowing public transit through. Do that long enough, maybe you can people to realize nearly all shortcomings of public transit are caused by underfunding, which is caused by all the money going to car infrastructure.
But of course looking at that from a different perspective would fucking suck, if you're a single parent, working 3 low-wage jobs, and you just want to get to work so you can afford to feed your child next week.... and then some idiots are impeding you getting to work.
But on the other other hand, maybe if the idiots were successful, you'd be able to get to work without owning a car, and you'd be able to work less, not having to pay for a car, gas, insurance, and maintenance. Ultimately improving your life... but only if they're successful. And in the meantime...
/shrug
You have the right to shout into the void.
Only if other people can't hear you or you'll be a disturber of the peace.
There was a farmers protest here during Covid, protesting environmental laws. They took their tractors onto the highways en-masse, super dangerous. They camped out outside a politician's house at night to threaten them. Burned things etc etc. Thousands of farmers involved, police didn't do anything for weeks. No arrests, no consequences.
There were arrests. And as far as I know, extinction rebellion right now are treated the same. I am unaware of any sentencing though.
Fascism pretty much. It's what any capitalist economy resorts to when it's about to collapse.
This is only the beginning. Eventually they'll resort to returning to slavery, or quasi-slavery to keep the economy going and then... collapse.
It's unironically proof of how deeply climate collapse is affecting humanity. The fact that they're openly honest about the fact that this is meant to intimidate people into not protesting is all you need to know.
The amount of obnoxious "But they're holding up traffic!" "But they're inconveniencing me!" as reasons for why they're against these protests makes it clear to me how much of humanity is a lost cause.
How did we go from disruptive protests bringing about civil rights and a better standard of living for people in the modern era, to this?
Plot twist: We didn't. It's just not a protest in favor of fascist beliefs.
The trucker protest didn't get nuked by the same fucks who argue "but muh traffic" logic everytime Just Stop Oil shows up.
Just Stop Oil causing minor disruptions in traffic = evil bad and "i have to get to work."
Fascist Truckers literally causing gridlock and constant noise disturbances for days on end = "BASED BASED BASED, LGB! WOOOOOOOOOOO"
Yeah, sure. Disruptive protests are only okay when they threaten to overturn an election or furthering some other fascist goal. But keeping us all from frying? "I HAVE TO GET TO WORK!!"
Uh huh. Nah, if someone disrupts traffic and makes me late to work. I'm taking video, and keeping that for my excuse to being late to work.
If you're having an issue with being late to work, because you will lack hours, maybe you and a group of your fellow workers might get an idea from this little incident. Where you maybe could, hmm i dunno, form a disruptive group that goes on strike and negotiates for better wages and terms of employment.
Based
I'm all for enviromentalism, but these clowns are menace to the society.
Oh no they were inconvenient and annoying, exactly as intended! It's almost like they were protesting something!
Meanwhile I'm wondering why ecoterrorism isn't more popular. Not saying I support it (or saying I don't), I am just surprised that there are less desperate people than I expected.
My biggest concern with ecoterrorism is that a lot of things that should be destroyed, if not done so in a safe way, may end up having worse environmental impacts than if they were left alone.
How much actual "eco-terrorism" has there been? Any oil rigs blown up in your area? I don't even see any protest groups advocating for it.
I'm not saying you're wrong but we should be significantly more concerned about the ecological destruction that's actually happening and still increasing right now.
i think the guy is saying we need eco terrorism. but a sustainable organic free-range eco terrorism, so that the acts of terror don't produce a worse outcome of what we are doing now.
like blowing up an oil rig will cause an oil spill at sea. sabotaging oil tankers on ports doesn't spill oil on the sea but it has the same effect as blowing up oil rigs.
i think eco terrorism will be mostly focused sabotage. all eco terrorist need to do is stop production of refined goods, supply line being global, sabotaging some unprotected factory in bangladesh that is the only one that produces a specific component could stop production of some given product globally.
That is certainly a worthwhile concern.
Edit to be clear: I think it is a worthwhile concern, not a reason to condemn all ecoterrorist action. It is just important that such action be well planned.
I think it pales in risk comparison to stuff like regular war though, and that keeps happening. They blow shit up for maximum impact and effect. whereas I would hope ecoterrorists are at least motivated to attack stuff in a non-environmentally-destructive way. Or at least, pick targets that have greater positive global impact than local negative impacts, but that kinda thing can't be an easy decision.
Apparently a common career for ex-soldiers and special forces is security for oil companies. So they're clearly surprised too.
Only a matter of time at this point, I suspect.
Go to the Middle East to liberate petrol, come back home to work for the same companies without a proxy!
aren't those hired for conflict zones? special forces are not really trained for security against social engineering with a high vis. which would be the routine operation protocol for any self respecting eco terrorist.
Sometimes I think about taking screenshots of comments like this and then publish them as a book in 20 years.
Please do, also screenshot this as the comment which made you do it
"I'm all for this thing, but fuck the people supporting this thing."
10/10
For climbing.
Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.
As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades:
How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world:
Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:
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