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Help! The Taliban ate my face! (archive.ph)
submitted 11 months ago by MaxPower@feddit.de to c/leopardsatemyface@lemmy.world
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Herbert F. (84) has been in a Taliban dungeon in Kabul for six months: the right-wing extremist blogger from Vienna had traveled to the Islamist country in the Hindu Kush despite warnings. He had wanted to show that, contrary to the opinion of experts, Afghanistan was a safe country of origin and that refugees could be deported there without hesitation - and proved the exact opposite.

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[-] rentar42@kbin.social 39 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

(Edit: this was meant as a reply to an apparently now-deleted (?) comment about why he deserves the anonymity of having his last name abbreviated).

He deserves it for the same reason a single mother raising a kid that gets involved in an armed robbery deserves it: basic human rights.

The idea of those is that they are universal and you'd have to have a very good reason to supersede them. If they are not universal, then they are just "suggestions" and then we end up with exactly the kind of society that this guy wanted.

And yes, being a major political actor is a good reason to lose that anonymity (which is also how it's handled in European media, there is no reporting on Angela M. or Emmanuel M.).

But this guy is a not a public figure in any reasonable sense any more. He's a stupid old guy that was one of the founding members of a extreme-right splinter party of a right-wing popular party in 1967. That party was banned in 1988. So it (and he) has not been relevant to anything for 35 years. He tried to become relevant with this stunt, fucked around and found out.

In fact, reporting on his full name is probably what he wants: publicity is what he was attempting to achieve, but anonymity is what he deserves (both as a basic human right and as punishment IMO).

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Is he charged with a crime or did he do a stupid international venture that is a continuation on the theme of his ridiculous political movement? Do leaders of racist boomer political movements deserve anonymity? Why couldn't he keep it confined to VierChan?

Edit: were it the case that his privacy was of primacy, why did it explicilty link him to his little "movement"?

[-] rentar42@kbin.social 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Is he charged with a crime

Apparently by the Taliban, yes.

But in Europe that is not sufficient to lose the right to anonymity (and it shouldn't be, it's incredibly easy to get charged, no matter whether anything bad happened).

Do leaders of racist boomer political movements deserve anonymity?

He isn't a leader of anything. Hasn't ever been (even when he was a founding member, he wasn't the leader).

He is a nobody (as he should be). And as such he deserves anonymity, yes. Just because he tried to change himself back into no-a-nobody doesn't mean he has succeeded.

Why couldn’t he keep it confined to VierChan?

Nazis are gonna Nazi.

Edit regarding your edit: yeah, that seems pretty fishy. I don't think they should have mentioned it, but with enough inside knowledge you'd probably find him by just "84 year old right-wing extremist blogger from Austria". That is (fortunately) not a huge population. I suspect (and this is purely speculation) that the authors don't think he deserves anonymity (so they include enough information to find out who it is), but do think they shouldn't "advertise" his cause (so they make it easy to ignore who he is). Similar to how media outlets in the US have finally decided to not publish the names of mass shooters: there is very little public benefit in publishing it and a very real risk of it encouraging others.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

suspect authors don't think he deserves anonymity

They're absolutely correct in that assessment and I will defend to the death (forgive my choice of words) the hilarity and their moral correctness for having done so. These people all wanna be famous anyway, how else was he planning on proving his point that its safe?

Also why should his cause be ignored? Evil florishes in darkness, I really don't get why you're defending this guy, particularly when I fee like its such a flimsy case.

Also these folks are born martyrs

[-] rentar42@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago

Out of curiosity: when you first asked, did you want to have the reason explained or were you just in it to argue your position? Because we might have gone into this exchange with different goals.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

You might have to refesh me as to which point you'e referring to. I'll try to lighten up a little, I'm just having a hard time containing my Schadenfreud. I kinda can't believe he didn't have any like-minded travel companions who similarly believed in his mission

Edit: something, something, friends and clerics along the way

[-] rentar42@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago

This:

How is his lastname a single letter?

Oh, and don't get me wrong: My Schadenfreude is off the charts. I wouldn't actively wish this on anyone (despite all his crimes and stupidity there's a pretty good chance that the "charges" are in fact bullshit), but he's not very high up the list of people I'd shed a tear for.

It's just that I don't believe that tearing down privacy rights to drive an aggressive media frenzy for 24-hour news has shown itself to be particularly good at avoiding fascism.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

He doesn't nor should he have a privacy right. He lost that the moment he began a public political movement in my view. Do you seriously refer to Merkel as Angela M? I think Europe has bigger problems than giving narcissists shade from their fame

[-] rentar42@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago

He doesn’t nor should he have a privacy right.

Well, then we're in disagreement.

I suspect that might be one of degrees, but it could also be more fundamental. I don't have the desire to continue this to drill down exactly.

As for Angela M: you can find my answer to that specific question upthread.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Its ok dude, aha. Where can I read more about this "right to privacy" and who's covered or in which jurisdictions etc.

I actually mean that with 100% good-faith, I'm vaguely familar with the general concept (even in horrific crimes) but I don't see how it extends to an international context like what we have here.

If he tried to come to Canada would we not be allowed to publicize and document that according to the way things are done here or should we defer to Europe's niceties in covering the news in our own country?

[-] rentar42@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Where can I read more about this “right to privacy” and who’s covered or in which jurisdictions etc.

The actual article about right to privacy in relation to media reporting is §7 of the Mediengesetz (literally "Media law"): https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/NormDokument.wxe?Abfrage=Bundesnormen&Gesetzesnummer=10000719&Artikel=&Paragraf=7&Anlage=&Uebergangsrecht=

That is the official and authoritative source, but it's also German and Legalese (and the nuance is definitely also in the application and comments, slightly similar to "case law" in common law countries, but not quite the same), so I doubt it's of much use. https://voez.at/politik-recht/rechtsinformationen/persoenlichkeitsrechte/ (or a Google translate version of it) can probably give you a better idea (that's a non-official site by the umrella organization of Austrian news papers).

It's also pretty important to note that the "Mediengesetz" doesn't restrict your average private citizen in what they can say: this is specifically about organization publishing media of any kind (news papers, books, ...).

extends to an international context like what we have here.

The article linked to is from an Austrian outlet, so Austrian laws and customs would apply.

Other outlets that report on the same story are obviously not bound by Austrian law and I think I saw at least one "article" (it was really just a very terrible summary of some other source) that used the full name.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Thanks for this, very detailed.

Not be crass, but does he plan to sue the paper or who actually enforces that if you are correct? Who has standing here?

[-] rentar42@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago

I suspect he would like nothing more than this to be as public as possible, so I don't think he will sue. Since my interest in this only really extends as far as "haha, that guy" I'm also not going to actively look into it ;-)

I don't think "standing" exists as such in civil law countries (as most of Europe), that is mostly a common law term.

But AFAIK the only one who can sue for this are the "injured parties", i.e. those about which untrue or defamatory things were said or who's identity was revealed without proper consideration of the pros/cons (because the right to anonymity in this is far from absolute).

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Even letters to the editor?

[-] rentar42@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago

I don't quite understand what you're asking for. What about those letters?

Also: I suspect that if I understood I probably couldn't give you an answer, because I'm not well-versed enough in all the details to be able to go into the nitty-gritty. The majority of my understanding is from seeing the effects of the law in news papers (via redactions and corrections) and occasionally reading up on how it works.

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[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Anonymous or not, he can still serve as an example where human stupidity can lead one.

[-] xkforce@lemmy.world 21 points 11 months ago

Dude pretty much literally drank the koolaid

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Would love for him to enumerate his "sources" in between goon the spinning dagger wheel

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Whats a more old-timey koolaid?

[-] Skua@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago

Kool aid powder has been on sale for nearly 100 years, I think it already is the old-time version of itself

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

God, this place is so great. The crap I learn here XD

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[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Its a tough but fair punishment. I advise he takes it

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 7 points 11 months ago

No somehow all of this is the liberals fault. You can bet in it

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

I mean, give me TWO non-nitpicky ways it isnt?! /s

[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

When keeping it real goes wrong

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

really stupid

[-] MaxPower@feddit.de 9 points 11 months ago

The link is to an Austrian news site. Could not find an English source.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I think I've heard enough

Edit: see my other comment

Edit: I lied

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 11 months ago

I assume that's because no one outside of Austria knows who he is.

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[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Why the fuck is an 84 yo blogging and why in the fuck is anyone listening to him creedthoughtsgov.com? How does he even depress the power button?

[-] tiredofsametab@kbin.social 5 points 11 months ago

I mean, an elderly granny gained a huge online following playing Skyrim. There are also various channels of old people talking about their youth, opinions on today through the lens of their experi nce, etc. with big followings. This guy was also involved in politics, apparently

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Which is why its a crazy argument that he's entitled to, much less deserves anonymity. When in Rome, you do as Romans do.

Edit: also, had he succeeded, how much do you wanna bet he would be all over the news and internet bragging about how if Afghanistan is good enough for him, its good enough for...refugees/immigrants? He would definitely be on FoxNews and friends

Edit: doesn't seem very fair that if he wins he wins and if he loses he wins by getting to hide his losses he would have been prepared to trumpet had the Taliban been more gentile with him

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 2 points 11 months ago

He wishes he'd gone to Rome

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Nah, Romans were gay

—Him, definitely

Edit: I just wish I had an old-timey slur to make it more realistic

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 2 points 11 months ago

Well they probably were gay. A lot of them were very much into that kind of thing and no one back then seemed to mind.

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[-] Blum0108@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Is there a reason I can't get past the captcha on Firefox Mobile?

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[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The problem is that you have someone who the law always protected and never bound(ed). Then he takes the party train to a different kingdom where the law binds but does not protect him. Now he wants you to come risk your neck for his protection.

some of you may die but that is a sacrifice he's willing to make

Edit: is Afghanistan advanced enough to even be a Kingdom, not sure about the specs of the nomeclature. I know it usually means medieval...

[-] sasquash471@feddit.de 3 points 11 months ago

I kinda feel bad for his relatives but this is just hilarious

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Why? Sounds terrible at the holiday dinners

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

How is his lastname a single letter?

[-] rentar42@kbin.social 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

In case you're not joking: It's very common in Europe to abbreviate the last name of non-public figures when reporting on them. So it's a kind of anonymization.

On the other hand: that guy was the founding member of a party, so could be argued to be a (minor) public figure. But I guess this specific report is not directly tied to that "work" of his, so it could be considered in the private sphere.

[-] MaxPower@feddit.de 3 points 11 months ago

Yeah this.

If anyone wants to know his full name (for whatever reason), you can find it on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_(Austria)

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Herbert Fritz

Can I ask why the hunt? Like why not just do what I did here?

[-] TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 3 points 11 months ago

also Austria probably has thousands of Herbert Fritzes

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Right? 84 years ago you couldn't toss a newspaper without hitting a Herbert Fritz

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[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Sounds like a real swell fella

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'm A ~~Right-Wing Extremist~~ Celebrity, Get Me Outta Here

— ~~Stephen Baldwin~~ Herbert ~~F.~~ Fritz

F this guy

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this post was submitted on 21 Nov 2023
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