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It’s basically just their Outlook web app. It offers no extra function, and breaks a LOT of old functionality.
There’s a registry key to turn off the button.
There’s a registry key to turn off the button.
Of course it's a registry key.
A registry key which is probably reset every 3rd update anyway, as usual.
Don't even need the damn button. Yesterday while playing some fullscreen game with critical network usage (CSGO) my windows 10 with edited group policies and registry keys to block updates just switched to the outlook from the old mail program and ran it in the foreground (behind the game).
Microsoft doesn't give a fuck about the user consent, the settings for updates, settings for game focus, out-of-the-way advanced user controls etc. These settings don't even need to be defaulted without consent via updates, it seems they outright don't work.
Had a similar issue where my computer (w10) would restart while I was away and update my gpu driver which would crash regularly. There's two different places in windows where you can disable this, one in general and one for specifically the device. None of them worked. Basically was forced to do the whole restart to safe mode -> destroy driver -> restart -> install driver -> restart every day. What solved it was a gpo but at that point I was so fed up I ended up switching to Linux
Oof. If you aren't using them, you can uninstall the default included MS Store Apps with PowerShell. Could have saved you some trouble.
I was going to say I had a similar setup and didn't get that update, but I remembered I had uninstalled the mail app.
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Well, it's intended for companies, so for them there's InTune policies or is GPOs. For us plebs, we just have to not press the button.
GPOs
Group policy can be modified by a laymen by launching gpedit.msc from Super+R or the start menu.
Not on Home edition
Not on Home edition
You can do it on home. Takes a lot of googling and monkeying around, but I did it on my father's computer years ago.
The Android app has done this for years too.
After connecting my (non Microsoft) email account to the Outlook Android app I noticed the login location was geolocated in the USA... I live in Australia.
Unfortunately there's no way to turn it off.
I mean, duh!!
It’s a web version wrapped in some god-awful semi-native wrapper. Everything the app does is stored on the server. So, yes, like gmail, if you give it access to another IMAP account, the password is stored on the server BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS.
This isn’t a scandal. It shouldn’t be news.
The bigger discussion why are we pretending a server driven mail client is local?
That is the discussion. Microsoft is pretending by making it the upgrade path for two products which actually are local, and hoping users won't notice.
At work I've been trying to use the new Outlook but the biggest gripe (other than this new news) is that it's once again, a fucking Electron app and a lot of features have been cut.
I work at an MSP and people have mistakenly changed to the new Outlook, and then find things like their local mail rules stop working (because it doesn't support those anymore), their custom accounting software that would compose an email in Outlook straight up won't do that with new Outlook, for businesses it's going to wreak havoc if Microsoft just force updates everyone.
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What are the more "trustworthy" email clients? Thunderbird still good?
New Thunderbird is great.
Is there a mobile app for Thunderbird?
Not per se, but Thunderbird is supposedly collaborating with the K-9 team to make K-9 the mobile version of Thunderbird.
Please let this be so 🙀
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They acquired K-9 Mail a year ago or so, but it's still K-9 Mail. There's plans and a roadmap, but not much has happened that the end user can see, yet.
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the recent revamp of thunderbird is really good.
em client (commercial product, but free for some--2 mail accounts, home use only) is also a solid choice.
Personally disliked emclient and went back to outlook.
Maybe I'll consider Thunderbird in the future now that it looks modern.
Already using Firefox.
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I don't get why people still use Microsoft services. How many data privacy scandals do we need, so they understand? Or do they still not care?
Because they're forced to? They own a large slice of enterprise.
In taking about personal email. I also use outlook at work because I'm forced to, but I would never let these bastards touch my private Mails.
Because my line of work means I working corporations, and they ALWAYS run everything on the big names, Microsoft and Oracle.
At home, I have choice. At work, I must swallow.
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It's insanely cheap for what you get
Business wise it's a no brainer
It's honestly pretty expensive compared to the alternatives. If you compare a business setup with windows plus office etc plus the support fee you can get all of that for free plus a much lower support fee from a variety of independent companies with Linux and libreoffice. The typical office worker really doesn't need the few corner cases where MS office maybe has an advantage. Honestly for a business I would even go with Google tools. Same data privacy issues, but at least the product works great. MS office in the cloud is hot garbage.
imnate compatibility with other organisations is a huge selling point.
For companies at a certain scale / within a certain field I don't think it's even up for discussion.
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not just login credentials, but all your mail, too, even if you aren't using a microsoft-hosted mail account.
I wish I was a good enough dev to write a swift keys replacement. There's AnySoftKeyboard available, and they're doing an amazing job with swipe input which I prefer, but there's only so much one person can do.
FlorisBoard
Gesture typing is still in early development. The suggestions bar doesn't work yet so it's really hard to use. Nevertheless, looks promising, and it looks like development is starting back up. I'll keep an eye on it.
I have yet to find an open-source keyboard with gesture typing that is anywhere near as usable as Gboard, unfortunately.
A compromise is this OpenBoard fork by Helium314 which is able to use Google's proprietary gesture typing library, which can be downloaded and loaded manually if you want to enable it. It's still a privacy improvement over using Gboard.
I'm seeing many people recommend Thunderbird. Let me enlightnen you.
I personally never trust any software that is not secure and private by default. Mozilla Corp is a for-profit corporation that makes nearly a Billion dollars in cooperation with Google monetizing data about your life. Thunderbird is Mozilla and if you setup with the Wizard, it already got the basics about your email life even if you disable it later.
Thunderbird Not Private by Default
- Sends all interactions with it to Mozilla
- Whether calendar is in use
- How many filters you have
- How many email accounts you have
- Computer/Device Information including hardware configuration
- Operating system
- IP address is logged
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-telemetry
Disabling Telemetry
- Click the menu button Menu Button and select Settings.
- Select the Privacy & Security panel.
- Scroll to the Thunderbird Data Collection and Use section.
- Deselect the Allow Thunderbird to send technical and interaction data to Mozilla checkbox.
Thunderbird Bad Security Practice of using a Primary Password
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/protect-your-thunderbird-passwords-primary-password
17 Criticial or High Vulnerabilies this year alone
Conclusion
If email security and privacy means a lot to you, or even computer security and privacy, your best options are to use BSD/UNIX/Void/Alpine and Claws-Mail. That is just the way the cookie crumbles in 2023.
Can someone respond to this who is able to reasonably challenge this view(s)?
It's true that Mozilla does collect telemetry and that Mozilla Corp is for profit, however Mozilla Corp is owned by Mozilla Foundation. That ownership structure is either a way to get around limitations on non profits, or its an opportunity for the Foundation to directly influence the Corp to be better.
However, I'll still use Firefox/Thunderbird because: Usage stats such as number of accounts or filters is in no way comparable to my username and password. One is basic metadata and stats, the other is a massive risk. You can opt out of the telemetry, the only way to opt out of sharing your password is to not use the new Outlook.
I take a more pragmatic approach to privacy based on my trust. I understand the value of telemetry, but change it depending on the company. Big Tech I have less trust in, Mozilla, while they have issues, are on average far better for privacy vs big tech.
As a developer, I understand the value of telemetry and the risks that come with collecting any data. I pick Firefox because it challenges the homogeney of Google's influence and it looks like I'm going to pick Thunderbird because I' haven't seen a better option.
Whoa, 9 upvotes instantly, then a block of 11 downvotes, then another block of 8 downvotes, and then a challenger reply, very interesting! Refute this guy he says! It's hard when someone challenges long held viewpoints, I get that. I live and breath security for decades now, there is nothing to refute, I left those parts out.
I'm choosing to repond here because this is a typical Big-Tech marketing speak viewpoint, that somehow Mozilla is to be trusted, that Mozilla isn't Big Tech. Well, it obviously is Big Tech to the tune of almost a Billion, what! The way they hide that massive Mozilla Corp money behind a non-profit, sketchy!
Right there you should not trust them
Even though you can opt-out of the Telemetry, which can be useful if done correctly, the majority of the most valuable data about your digital life is already collected when you set it up. Opting out only disables further collection.
Mozilla is a significant part of increasing Google's hegemony if you read the article, you have it backwards! The Internet Data search et al. valuation is vastly superior [value] to browser valuation or market share to which Firefox is only something like 7%.
Lastly going with Thunderbird because it's the least bad is a terrible choice to have to make, isn't it? Do I have that wrong? Even if you are on Windows, you can determine to not play the least-bad game of Big-Tech selling the least amount of details about your life and just run your email somewhere else, even in a VM.
I'm here for people power and not Mega-Corp power. I'm writing this at the keyboard right now willing to get flack and downvotes, for you. I gave you the viable option, Claws-Mail.
Some may say yeah, but BSD/Linux Claws-Mail is not a shiny UX experience and those shinies are worth sale of my digital identity/me. How Gollum of you!
Yeah, I said it Lemmy, I said it! Don't sell yourself for free because it's easier or "more intuitive" or "works better"!
Complaining about downvotes is a sure fire way to get more downvotes.
But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the information you’re presenting, so much as the way you’re presenting it.
There’s tons of emotion around news and facts these days and people just want it cut straight without the fat. Don’t tell us how to feel, or why we should feel that way, tell us what the facts are and we’re grown ups, we’ll put our big people clothes on and make up how we feel about it on our own.
Any emotion you put into it is likely to undo any good points you may have made. There’s a time for that, this isn’t it.
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I appreciate your informative post. I almost down voted it for the statement that Mozilla is big tech, but you do have a valid point that they are on Google's leash. I wish it weren't that way and that they were self-sustaining, but it is what it is. In my mind, they are better than the big tech companies because of their non-profit ownership, but non-profits can be corrupted. I'm still going to continue using Firefox though since the web desperately needs browser competition and it's the only competition in town =)
Honestly I'm glad they highlighted the telemetry. I went through the local report about what's included and while it's not an upsetting level of detail, it's more comprehensive than I would have opted in to if asked.
Still, as sibling points out it's in a completely different league from slurping up your IMAP creds, something which has always been local-only data. This is the second time I know of recently where MS has trampled on this kind of local-only expectation - the other was Edge defaulting to sending the contents of textboxes you're filling out on webpages to the MS cloud for spelling and grammar checks. Thunderbird is still a sound recommendation, and unlike Microsoft, I trust that if I uncheck the telemetry box they're not going to try to get me some other way.
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Yet another reason to use Thunderbird or Evolution. There must finally be mobile devices with Linux that are usable.
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It's just outrageous that we're in 202-almost-4 and mail is still in use the way it is.
Seriously, the fix has been available for almost 30 years, no one has been able - or willing - to popularize it. Hmmm.
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this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
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