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The long fight to make Apple's iMessage compatible with all devices has raged with little to show for it. But Google (de facto leader of the charge) and other mobile operators are now leveraging the European Union's Digital Market Act (DMA), according to the Financial Times. The law, which goes into effect in 2024, requires that "gatekeepers" not favor their own systems or limit third parties from interoperating within them. Gatekeepers are any company that meets specific financial and usage qualifications, including Google's parent company Alphabet, Apple, Samsung and others.

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[-] kirklennon@kbin.social 129 points 1 year ago

On the tech side, Android users also get lower-quality photos and videos when they're sent through iMessage.

Android users don’t receive anything at all through iMessage; the whole conversation becomes SMS/MMS. I suppose getting major, relevant tech details is hard for an outlet like Engadget.

[-] sanpo@sopuli.xyz 60 points 1 year ago

I think you're just being pedantic here.

I'm pretty sure they meant when messages are sent using the iMessage app - from the point of view of iPhone user distinction between iMessage protocol and SMS/MMS doesn't matter.

[-] kirklennon@kbin.social 60 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The app is called Messages. The entire point of the article is to discuss iMessages versus SMS so I absolutely do think it’s important to get the distinction right in this case.

[-] sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

But the statement made is not incorrect. I agree that a note that it's because the conversation switches to S/MMS would be handy, but they're not incorrect.

(When photos and videos are sent to an Android user through iMessage), (Android users receive lower-quality photos and videos [via being downgraded to SMS/MMS).

[-] kirklennon@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The statement in the article is literally incorrect. You cannot send a message to an Android user through iMessage. That fact is at the core of the discussion and they got it wrong. It’s not degraded from an iMessage. The conversation is just happening over SMS/MMS, as the Messages app has supported since launch in 2007.

[-] sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The surrounding context of that statement is talking about the app, not the protocol. From the Apple user's perspective, they see no difference except for the bubble color.

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[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 36 points 1 year ago

when they're sent through iMessage.

Android users don’t receive anything at all through iMessage

Your whole argument is based on failing to distinguish sending from receiving. You understand those are different things, right?

[-] kirklennon@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There is nothing to distinguish here. iMessage is the protocol and messaging platform. An iMessage sent remains as an iMessage when received. Android users are not sent and do not receive iMessages. They are sent SMS/MMS and they receive SMS/MMS. If all of the iMessage servers exploded right now, nothing at all would change in Apple to Android messaging because iMessage was never involved.

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[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So you want "when they're sent [from] iMessage"? I think you're being really pedantic.

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[-] joyjoy@lemm.ee 60 points 1 year ago

But nobody in Europe uses iMessage.

[-] tony@lemmy.hoyle.me.uk 28 points 1 year ago

I presume apple users do occasionally..

I guess this is a way for google to force apple to open the protocol since they can't just open it in the EU, so it affects the US too. But the EU don't have to listen to google.. if imessage is such a minor player they may just leave it alone.

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[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

I never understood why WhatsApp is so popular. I used it (a long time ago) and just don't see it.

[-] WetBeardHairs@lemmy.ml 47 points 1 year ago

It's the network effect. Everyone else uses it - so it is easier to just use it than to not use it.

[-] nicetriangle@kbin.social 30 points 1 year ago

Basically in a lot of Europe texting was or still is expensive and not unlimited and WhatsApp was a free alternative and Meta did not own it at the time.

So everyone was like well fuck texting and adopted apps like WhatsApp and then Meta bought WhatsApp. Now in these countries it's the defacto standard whether you like it or not. Businesses, people, and even sometimes government uses it as the default way to text. It sucks.

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[-] Apollo2323@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 1 year ago

Because it gave the possibility of free text and calling over the internet , that was a big deal for many developing countries and it is very simple to use. Like I heard some Apple fanboys said that iMessage comes already installed with the phone? And on my mind I am like : How hard is to download an app and just put your phone number you are up and running in less than 2 minutes.

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[-] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 58 points 1 year ago

The fuck is with all these comments? Since when are we siding with Apple and closed off communications standards around here?

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[-] kaitco@lemmy.world 49 points 1 year ago

This feels a bit like asking MS Teams to play nice with Google Meet, or demanding that Apple’s office suite (Pages, Numbers, etc.) deliver the exact same product when files are saved in an OpenOffice format. This doesn’t seem to be an issue with any other products…

Apple have designed their product to work well with their devices. The Messages app still functions with non-Apple devices. SMS messages can be sent and received to anyone. The fact that pictures and whatever come through like crap is more an issue with the SMS platform than it is with Apple’s app.

Ultimately, Google dislikes the fact that there is a “green bubble” stigma (for lack of a better word) on Apple devices that encourages those who care about such things to prefer Apple devices. Because Google doesn’t have their own widely used iMessage equivalent, they can’t turn around and make messages outside their platform appear as red bubbles or something, so they are attacking from this angle instead.

Sent from my iPhone

[-] Salamendacious@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sent from my iPhone

That's hilarious

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[-] Kbin_space_program@kbin.social 25 points 1 year ago

Google is pushing RMS, which they would control, and is designed to push you ads and usage metrics back to them.

I haven't seen a valid reason to get rid of SMS though.

[-] cm0002@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's RCS not RMS and Google didnt even want control of it in the first place, it's well documented Google has been trying to get US carriers to stop dragging their feet on RCS for a long time. They never did until Google literally went "Fine, I'll do it myself then"

AND RCS is an open protocol, nobody really has "control" over it, Google runs some RCS servers but if it disappeared tomorrow (Or you changed the defaults) RCS itself would run just fine on whatever including if Apple supports RCS

ETA: Also SMS is absolute trash, it's from the early 90's (it's older than me FFS) it doesn't really support what we want out of it media wise today, and what it does support it was forced to. It'll send "video" but it'll be completely unrecognizable. It needs to be put to pasture already.

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[-] kaitco@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Google is pushing RMS, which they would control

Hardest of hard passes, even if I were on Android.

Again, Google don’t have their own iMessage that is widely used, so instead of compete on that level, they want to own the whole system.

[-] bkk_beaucoup@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 year ago

Anybody remember Hangouts? Google’s iMessage that was better in every conceivable way than its Apple analog, integrated with Google voice, could be accessed anywhere you could get on Gmail etc? Dropping the ball on Hangouts to favor carrier pre-installed messaging Apps was such an incredible and short-sighted blunder. I concede that exactly like their many app deprecations/cut-and-runs that did not take the long-term sentiment of the end user into account and damaged their reputation and adoption. And now here we are… trying to grovel back into iMessage’s purview.

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[-] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago

Bingo. This whole case is designed to make Apple look like the bad guy whilst Google hides their real agenda of forcing Apple to use a protocol Google controls and thus stamp out Google’s competition.

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[-] cm0002@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

It's quite literally well documented that Apple doesn't want to support RCS because it pressures people to get iPhones. SMS is an ancient garbage protocol, what Google is trying to do is get Apple to support SMSs 21st century replacement and RCS support will fix literally every issue iPhone users have texting Android users. Broken group chats, trash quality videos, ultra compressed images, no reactions or stickers, threaded chats etc etc

[-] kirklennon@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago

Google wants Apple to use Google’s proprietary extension of RCS, which runs on Google’s own servers as is precisely as open as iMessage. Effectively nobody uses the industry-standard version of it.

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[-] beeng@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes but there is no green bubble stigma in Europe... We all use whatsapp and signal.

[-] Satelllliiiiiiiteeee@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

I mean, fuck, there's no green bubble stigma in the US either. I have never once heard people complain about it in the real world

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[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 34 points 1 year ago

Google and company can go fuck themselves on this one, and I'm usually the first one to bash on Apple for selling overpriced status symbols.

I'm frankly amazed at how much importance Google gives iMessage, when it's not the number 1 messaging app anywhere in the world. Hell, even if you assume Apple halved its report of monthly active users in Europe, that's 90 million people in Europe. Significant, but less than 25% of the total population of the EU

Outside USA and Canada, you'll be hard pressed to find people who give a damn about iMessage, because most are using a different, cross compatible app anyway, like Whatsapp or Telegram, even across most European countries.

[-] notenoughbutter@lemmy.ml 25 points 1 year ago

because iMessage is probably the number 1 reason for iphone purchase in USA

this will obviously help google gain market share in the us

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[-] Builtin@lemmy.one 21 points 1 year ago

Why would you be against standardizing messaging over the net? How is that a bad thing?

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[-] mojo@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

SMS would basically be dead if Apple adopted RCS, that's why it's important. SMS needs to die.

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[-] reddig33@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

The messages app supports SMS. That means it already “interoperates” with common messaging apps and platforms.

[-] joyjoy@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago

SMS is the bare minimum. The only reason iPhone supports it is because it was supported before iMessage was a thing. It was also so it could still communicate with "dumb" phones.

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[-] pascal@lemm.ee 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Oh, now you want Europe's strong arm? Google? Now? Fuck off, you yankee!

EDIT: Also, we European literally don't care. Everyone is using Whatsapp or Telegram. There's no "Blue vs green bubble" war here in Europe, only America can get angry on such idiocy.

[-] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago

Let's be clear - only a subset of Americans care about the bubbles. And it's annoying to the rest of us too.

The iMessage approach is the obvious solution, Google had a competitor over 10 years ago and killed it. Signal took the same approach and killed SMS just this year.

It's frustrating, because US has the particular problem of SMS being ubiquitous because it became zero-additional-cost for most people by about 2005. The same mindset that keeps people on SMS also creates the blue-bubble nonsense: ease of use and not having to think about it. Signal was making inroads on this, makes me wonder why they stopped supporting SMS.

I have friends who say "I don't want to have to think about where to message someone". Oh, ffs, do you struggle with calling their home/work/cell, or choosing to email or send a letter?

So yea, it's not America vs the rest of the world, it's us vs the complacent/unaware.

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[-] plz1@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

So Google will reciprocate and open up its RCS platform right? Right? I doubt it.

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[-] soulfirethewolf@lemdro.id 18 points 1 year ago

Wrapping an internet messaging service with a text messaging system was probably one of the worst things that Apple did.

When I had switched to Android, I was hoping I'd still be able to use iMessage from my iPad occasionally, But eventually I had to give up because whenever I sent an iMessage from my email, my family would just try responding from there as well, Even when I sent a SMS message afterwards.

I managed to convince my father to download WhatsApp (since he doesn't want to use signal or telegram, and personally, I don't really like signals lack of external features like no smartwatch app or assistant integration. And I don't know why not Telegram), but the only other messaging platform my mom uses is Facebook Messenger so that kind of sucks that it's my only option for communicating outside of SMS. Can't really convince my sister to switch to something else (and she blocked me on discord for whatever reason, probably because she's 16 and going through this huge phase right now and I tend to use my sona for almost all online accounts as opposed to my real name)

My family kept complaining that by using something else beyond SMS, requiring them to check yet another messaging app, I'd be complicating their lives too far. But I'm still continuing because there is absolutely no reason for me and my family to be using SMS anymore, and I personally would like to have things like typing indicators and higher quality media back

On a side note, why is Facebook Messenger so much worse than WhatsApp despite being owned by the same company?

[-] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 15 points 1 year ago

They didn't make WhatsApp, they bought it. And were smart enough to leave it mostly alone. They don't even really need to outright spy on convos, just sucking in all the contacts, building shadow profiles and figuring out relations from who's talking to whom is worth gold.

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Although, I get the argument and sure go ahead and do it.

I have to laugh at Google calling for the regulation of Apples monopoly but are happy to maintain their monopolies.

It’s be like Apple calling out Bowers & Wilkins for high prices.

Or Bezos calling for more piss breaks for Walmart staff.

Glass houses and stones.

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[-] Zummy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

I get that this is a silly issue that only a subset of Americans actually care about, but if you think that Google is doing this for any other reason other than that they don’t like how popular iMessage is and want it to end, you’re fooling yourself. Google hopes to eventually make more money when one barrier between an Android and iPhone is removed.

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[-] miridius@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Nobody in EU uses SMS, it stopped being a thing as soon as everyone had phones with internet and you could use better chat apps. So we don't give a crap about iMessage being open or not.

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[-] AaronNBrock@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Until Google supports RCS on Google voice, I can't take their requests seriously.

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this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
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