This is the second megathread for discussion regarding the crisis.
Informal/Satirical news sources are not allowed on the main feed of the community but you are free to post them in this thread.
Please remember that all community and instance rules apply to this thread hence keep is civil.
I am going to use this thread to make a continuation of what I've posted in the first megathread where I shared a plethora of related links that share insight on the nature of this conflict.
#Nakba
Burying the Nakba: How Israel Systematically Hides Evidence of 1948 Expulsion of Arabs
Classified Docs Reveal Massacres of Palestinians in '48 – and What Israeli Leaders Knew
'I Saw Fit to Remove Her From the World'
Zionist Militia’s Efforts to Recruit Nazis in Fight Against the British Are Revealed
#Recent Events
Using an Attack Dog, Israeli Women Soldiers Forced Palestinian Women to Undress
Cigarette Burns, Beatings, Attempted Sexual Assault: Settlers and Soldiers Abused Palestinians
Israeli Settler Documented Shooting Palestinian at Point-blank in the West Bank
Israeli tank fires on car near Gaza City
Hundreds Involved in Attacking Arabs and Leftists, but Israel Police Arrest Only Four
Far-right Israeli Knesset Member Zvi Sukkot to Head Subcommittee on the West Bank
#Videos
Dr. Gabor Maté (Holocaust Survivor)
^ Here's an interview regarding recent events.
Katie harper interviews political scientist and activist, Norman Finklestein
^At 1:43:50, Finklestein asserts that Israel would bomb a residential area, wait for people to come out and call an ambulance, and then bomb the ambulance.
Katie Harper interviews journalists and political activists regarding recent events.
^At 00:24:15, Ali asserts that Israel is willing to shoot their own civilians as evidenced by the Hannibal Directive, verifiable events, and testimonies such as Yasmin Porat's where the IDF was shooting indiscriminately and even fired tank shells into Israeli homes.
#Articles
How colonizers weaponize rape: reflections from the Palestinian case
Opinion | Dying in Southern Gaza: 'I Want to Go Home. At Least I’ll Die After Drinking Fresh Water'
Opinion | Amid the Mourning, Israel's Settlement Enterprise Celebrates a Great Victory
Israeli Soldier's Explosive Tell-All: "Palestinians are right to resist" - Former IDF soldier talks about how he realized that his actions were perpetuating apartheid, and that Palestinians were right to resist through any means.
Tantoura Ethnic Cleansing Testimony - Yosef Diamant ^[There is a whole-ass documentary for those interested.
Breaking the Silence - Israeli NGO where IDF veterans testify their experiences. Some examples:
If you find any other notable background information, feel free to share.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Israeli tank fires on car near Gaza City
Dr. Gabor Maté (Holocaust Survivor)
Katie harper interviews political scientist and activist, Norman Finklestein
Katie Harper interviews journalists and political activists regarding recent events.
Israeli Soldier's Explosive Tell-All: "Palestinians are right to resist"
Tantoura Ethnic Cleansing Testimony - Yosef Diamant
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
‘America First’ Republicans Explain Why They Support Israel’s Military
“Oh, just because I have a basement full of Nazi memorabilia, I can’t support Israel?”
What's the educated opinion of how could this been handled by Israel? Honest question. (Ignoring the fact that Israel failed with intel)
To me it seems like Gaza had no intention to get rid of Hamas though at the same time bombing is unnecessary as the culprits can't really leave other than the secret tunnels to Egypt which can't really be bombed.
So the only real alternative is a full Blockade and ultimatum or something? Clearly Gaza doesn't stand a chance against IDF too so Israel had all of the cards to conjure any response they wanted.
I've tried to Google similar modern scenarios and couldn't find anything.
To me it seems like Gaza had no intention to get rid of Hamas though at the same time bombing is unnecessary.
There hasn't been elections for 16 or 17 iirc so how can Palestinians "get rid of" Hamas?
Hamas was supported & funded by Netanyahus likud party specifically because it drove a wedge between those in Gaza and in the West Bank. Classic divide and conquer technique.
As for what Israel can do? They can get rid of the genocidal crook that's running their government and his two murderous far right henchmen and grasp that he had concocted this situation for several reasons:
To divert attention away from his corruption and fraud indictments
To quell the protests that have been going on for months against him because of the corruption and legislation he has passed to curtail the supreme courts ability to hold the executive to account.
To level Gaza, ethnically cleanse it & genocide the Palestinian people so he can get to the natural gas and oil reserves there.
Yes, there's a lot Israel can do and it needs to be quick about it.
It sounds like you just put everything you don't like about Israel in that answer, but without actually giving an answer how this actually could be handled. "Just don't to bad stuff, do good stuff" How would that have been an appropriate response to the terrorist attack?
You're talking as though the attacks happened in a vacuum, without intelligence from several sources pre-warning of it and without a certain level of collusion from the Israeli executive to allow it to happen and bring capitalised by then for it's maximum effect.
When you can genuinely approach the subject not from such a disingenuous perspective then my response may well be perceived by you as a bit more than "If you don't want to be taken for a cunt then don't act like one "
For me it sounds like you are you saying, they deserve the terrorist attack and are not allowed to react to it.
That would be the exact reactionary response I would expect from someone with no grasp of the history, its complexity or even a miniscule amount of knowledge of the atrocities that have been carried out against civilians by both sides
Then you're just ignoring geopolitics and talking about who said what.
Ideally Israel wouldn't have been oppressing Palestinians in the first place so that Hamas would never have come to power. They could have engaged in dialogue and diplomacy with Hamas and the Palestinians to figure out something that would work for everyone. They could have negotiated a prisoner swap or something for the hostages.
But Israel, specifically Likud and the right-wing parties, have no interest in this. They want all of Palestine gone, and to control it all themselves.
Not to mention that Hamas had accepted the 1967 borders back in 2017 and it was Netanyahu who rejected it. Hamas is a pet project by Netanyahu to divide Palestinians in Gaza from the West Bank. He’s helped nurture and support them as a means to do more land grabs and expand Israel’s territorial grip. So the starting point has to be a full withdrawal of the occupation, the ability for Palestinians to have a democratic government that is free from Israeli influence, and the restoration of the 1967 borders. The withdrawal of all Israeli settlers from within Palestinian borders.
They can also currently stop protecting murderers in the west bank. So we don't have to ask how did a radical movement take power there a couple of years from now.
Israel could stop being an apartheid state and stop illegally occupying Palestinian land and imprisoning millions of gazans and hamas would no longer be a political force. Because hamas is a violent reaction to colonial violence after nonviolent reactions failed for decades.
Dealing with this situation logically doesn't work, because it's not logic that got it started.
Both sides have majority support for essentially exterminating the other side.
Add to the fact that both sides are receiving massive external support in order for those external nations to wage a proxy war against each other, and it's just a shit show all around.
You’re right, logic didn’t start the current conflict. The British did when they disarmed Palestinians and armed and trained Zionist paramilitaries. This enabled the Zionists to forcibly evict hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes in a brutal ethnic cleansing campaign. The pace at which Palestinians are being displaced has slowed but it has never stopped. While Palestinian resistance movements have received outside support it pales in comparison to the military support Israel receives from the US and other western countries. This conflict is unfortunately very one sided.
If you think Arabs and Jews fighting started with the British, you'd be a thousand years late to the party.
Changing the balance of the power did not start the conflict.
Okay so you’re just going to ignore the hundreds of years of relative peace in the region under Ottoman rule immediately preceding WWI?
So peaceful.... Multiple massacres and entire towns getting sacked for being Jewish sure doesn't sound like peaceful to me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire#Antisemitism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Yishuv
The Ottomans lost in WWI, and the empire got split up. It's not surprising that non-Muslim groups in the area got control of some of the parts.
This isn't exactly an answer for how it could have been handled, but it's got a lot of great info on the complicated factors at play.
Causes of the war https://youtu.be/zMxHU34IgyY
Israel's reaction/overreaction https://youtu.be/B4H95DlII2s
I highly recommend Beau of the Fifth Column for more informal news about the conflict. He only ever reports when something can be verified, and has a team helping him do research.
Never heard of this guy before your post. He is a YouTuber who may have done time for human smuggling? Why would he be a better reporter than the actual news orgs on the ground?
Yeah no shit.. what…?
“I get my news from some guy in a basement”
He's a secondary source that independently verifies facts. He has connections with people like Chelsea Manning and many other sources of information and knowledge. He is a part of several mutual aid groups that also provide him with information. He served in the military for 20 years. He's not just "a guy in a basement", that's a studio set made to look like his shed. He specializes in deprogramming MAGA conservatives by making his videos appear like a MAGA "news" source (as a consequence, finding a specific video from him is difficult)
I like him, but it’s hard to trust a guy that uses 5 columns when you only need 4.
It took me a looooong time to warm up to him and even understand his position on the world. I just didn't understand what his angle was... But then it sort of just happened.
He's a very intelligent dude with excellent views.
Why was there a concert happening so close to the Gaza border, what organizer thought that was a good idea
I'll just say it.
The state of Israel is basically the modern Nazi Germany.
I want Israel to exist, but not by genociding an entire ethnic group from the land. This is fucked up, and fuck anyone defending these actions.
Published by the IDF about six hours ago on YouTube: Inside a Hamas Terrorist Tunnel Under Rantisi Hospital in Gaza
Hamas must be eliminated for the good of Israel and Gaza. Burying head into sand was already tried and failed
Map of Palestine from National Geographic magazine 1947.
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