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submitted 1 year ago by TinyPizza@kbin.social to c/world@lemmy.world

Since October 7, more than 3,257 children have been reported killed, including at least 3,195 in Gaza, 33 in the West Bank, and 29 in Israel, according to the Ministries of Health in Gaza and Israel respectively. The number of children reported killed in just three weeks in Gaza is more than the number killed in armed conflict globally – across more than 20 countries – over the course of a whole year, for the last three years.

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[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 124 points 1 year ago

Yet some people still claim Israel is the victim! When the truth is that Israel is a terrorist state.

[-] TinyPizza@kbin.social 67 points 1 year ago

The ol' "you shot me in the foot so I burnt down your neighborhood and killed your entire extended family" defense. Unbeatable in the court of law.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 47 points 1 year ago

I agree, except I think Israel is the one to both start and end this.
I burnt down your house and killed your family, but because you shot me in the foot, I'll burn down your neighborhood and kill your entire extended family.

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[-] tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 39 points 1 year ago

People see will see these numbers and still argue "they are showing restraint, if Israel was really evil they would just carpet bomb them all." Like what the fuck is this then?

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[-] BillygotTalent@feddit.de 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Of course they are also the victim. Hamas slaughtered adults and children with no remorse. Now Israel is returning the favor.

Both sides are aggressors and victims.

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[-] Kashbus@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

It's a bit more complicated than that no?

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[-] shatal@lemmy.world 62 points 1 year ago

To make it perfectly clear - the fact that children are dying is reprehensible and it should be stopped. Even if one innocent child died, from both sides, it's one too many.

That being said, this is a very good example of propaganda by partial information and numbers manipulations.

The UN report in question identifies anyone under the age of 18 as a child. The Al-Qassam brigades recruit teens from the age of 16 to active combative roles (some reports suggest an even younger age).

It's impossible to know how many of these 3,257 children are actually children and how many are armed teens, and the UN report references that. The propaganda completely ignores this part and reframes this information as if more than 3,000 young and innocent children were slain.

[-] TinyPizza@kbin.social 43 points 1 year ago

A worldwide charity that's existed for 100 years, whose exclusive mission is trying to save children from war, is a very good example of propaganda? Please explain this, because you say that one is too many but then you say "don't fall for this guys, it's not nearly that many."
Are you saying it's ok to murder minors because they're armed? Are you saying that's why these minors were murdered? Do you have proof of this? Because your statements seem to be the ones which are unfounded and sound a lot like propaganda to excuse the murder of thousands of children.

[-] SoleInvictus@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A common tactic by propagandists is to call inconvenient information propaganda. It's like how fascists tend to blame their opponents for engaging in behavior that only the fascists are actually engaging in.

[-] shatal@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A worldwide charity that’s existed for 100 years, whose exclusive mission is trying to save children from war, is a very good example of propaganda

Absolutely, 100%. Human rights organisations are not unbiased news outlets - they have agendas and objectives. Their objectives are commendable ones, and the work they do is invaluable, but they still utilise propaganda as a means to an end. As good and important as this end is, their reports should be received with the same amount of caution and critical thinking as any report coming from anyone with an objective in this.

you say that one is too many but then you say “don’t fall for this guys, it’s not nearly that many

That's just a straw man. I never suggested that it's not that many. It can be 3,257 and it could be 0. I just pointed out the information manipulation.

Are you saying it’s ok to murder minors because they’re armed

It's never ok, but unfortunately this is war and war is shit. An ak47 in the hands of a 12 years old can kill just as well as one in the hands of a 20 years old.

Another point for you to consider is that traditionally, in the Philippines, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Cambodia, many regions of Africa and essentially wherever there were children-soldiers, the ones that indoctrinated them, trained them and placed firearms in their hands were the ones who were blamed for their deaths.

You seem to hold Israel as the only one accountable for it.

[-] TinyPizza@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago

They are the ones dropping the bombs on them in a city they surrounded with walls? When should they be held to account for these virtual murders? This is an offensive action, not a defensive one. These kids aren't coming at soldiers in waves, they're being crushed under rubble from bombs dropping on the places they are attempting to find safety. Whole families dying like that.

[-] shatal@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

You need to get out of whatever echo chamber you're in.

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[-] Aleric@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago

The propaganda completely ignores this part and reframes this information as if more than 3,000 young and innocent children were slain.

The only thing that's really propaganda here is your comment. A child conscripted to fight in a war is still a child, and no amount of pretending otherwise by propagandists like yourself will change that fact.

[-] shatal@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The only thing that’s really propaganda here is your comment

How so?

A child conscripted to fight in a war is still a child

I agree, but I'll copy what I answered the other comment about this exactly: It’s never ok, but unfortunately this is war and war is shit. An ak47 in the hands of a 12 years old can kill just as well as one in the hands of a 20 years old.

in the Philippines, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Cambodia, many regions of Africa and essentially wherever there were children-soldiers, the ones that indoctrinated them, trained them and placed firearms in their hands were the ones who were blamed for their deaths.

You seem to hold Israel as the only one accountable for it.

[-] TinyPizza@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You just don't get to throw up your hands and say "thats war." This is not normal and should in no way be normalized (as you seem to be attempting to do.)

edit: a word

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[-] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago
[-] bezerker03@lemmy.bezzie.world 21 points 1 year ago

Hamas are the terrorists preventing citizens from fleeing and using them as shields. They are at fault. Israel is not targeting civilians they are targeting Hamas outposts which Hamas purposefully puts in civilian zones hoping for protection.

Hamas literally wants to wipe all Jewish people from existence and started to do so. So far every one of the stories of what Hamas did to the Jewish folks has turned out to be true. Most of the Hamas ones have turned out to be bs.

Let's be clear. Jews haven't lived in Gaza since 2005. Gaza was given millions and millions of dollars in aid and supplies since. Instead of building a flourishing society, they built tunnels, bombs, and shoot rockets daily at Israel trying to kill Jews even though they don't live in Gaza. There are no "colonizing settlers" for nearly 2 decades.

Enough is enough. Peace is not an option here it's just a blanket that the bad guys use (and break the treaties for) all the time just to get a reprieve when sht gets real.

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[-] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 39 points 1 year ago

But mentioning it makes you an antisemite, the ADL told me so!

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[-] Grant_M@lemmy.ca 35 points 1 year ago

It's shameful that Hamas terrorists intentionally use children as shields.

[-] dlatch@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago

Let me ask you two questions.

If Hamas is using the Palestinian people as shields and is forcefully preventing civilians from moving away from them, that makes the Palestinian people effectively hostages of Hamas. So if the Palestinian hostages happen to be near Hamas terrorists, are they acceptable collateral damage if Israel bombs them?

Eventually, Israel will find out where the Israeli hostages are being kept. Obviously, there will be Hamas terrorists near them. Are the Israeli hostages acceptable collateral damage if Israel bombs them?

If you answered yes to one question, and no to the other, you should ask yourself why you put different value on the lives of innocent human beings. Is it what side of a fence they are born on? What nationality they happen to have? What religion they believe in? The color of their skin?

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[-] filister@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

Ugh, that's twisted logic, so all civilian casualties should be ultimately attributed to Hamas? None of them can be attributed to perhaps an indiscriminate aerial bombardment running for three weeks?

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[-] TinyPizza@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago

Shields implies that they would use them to block something. Their death means that they obviously weren't effective in that. You can only use something as a shield if it stops the enemy from doing that thing. The fact that they were still murdered falls at the feet of Israel. You know, as the people that dropped the weapons on their heads.

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[-] Zippit@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

You're disgusting, eff your 'human shield' story. It's like a white manager came up with those words as an excuse for genocide. Just like 'right to defend themselves' or 'but Hamas this or that...'

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[-] cunning_bolt@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

This is how you ensure there's another generation of radicalized individuals to have to combat.

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[-] Kashbus@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ministries of Health in Gaza is Hamas lead no? Would not be surprised to see the numbers in Gaza being inflated

EDIT: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/24/hamas-israel-death-toll-health-ministry-trustworthy-reuters/

“Hamas has now been in charge of Gaza for 16 years. It has squeezed the life out of honesty and probity. Any health official stepping out of line and not giving the death tolls that Hamas wants reported to journalists risks serious consequences. I’m not denying there are civilians being killed. At all, including many children. That’s verifiable. What is not verifiable are the numbers that emerge throughout the day from Gaza of new death tolls — 700 killed in the last 24 hours, 500 killed in the Ahli hospital car park blast, 5,000 killed since October 8. Hamas has a clear propaganda incentive to inflate civilian casualties as much as possible. There was a time when the figures from the ministry could be relied upon. The doctors and administrators knew what they were doing.”

This is an area of credibility that is still up in the air with reliable sources claiming that it is both reliable and unreliable numbers that are being published. However none of it though dismisses the fact that innocents are dying from Israel’s War with Hamas, innocents that contain children

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[-] magikarpet@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Why should we trust a Ministry of Health in Gaza? Are they not a part of Hamas?

Edit: they even say later: “Save the Children is an independent, impartial organisation. With the ongoing complete siege of Gaza, journalists and international organisations are not able to get access to Gaza to verify independently and provide updated data on the impact of ongoing bombardment on the civilian population.”

[-] TinyPizza@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago

Wouldn't a good way to stop that be to stop the bombardment and let in people to take a full accurate tally? Israel would stop to do that if they cared about that number, and yet the bombs keep dropping.

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[-] DoomBot5@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Wow not a single mention of the infants and children being held hostage in Gaza. Apparently they only care about saving some of the children

[-] Zippit@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Dude if you're triggered by them just 'counting' their dead, there's something wrong with you.

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[-] TinyPizza@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago

This is an article about children who are dead, not those still alive.

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this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2023
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