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[-] MehBlah@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Look, give us come kind of civilized measurement. Like how many pygmy marmosets is that?

[-] Zink@programming.dev 1 points 5 hours ago

The size of vehicles around me in the US is absurd. I live in a pretty white & republican area, with a mix of rednecks in their compensators and temporarily embarassed billionaires in their 2-3 ton $100K luxury grocery getters.

I'm a big guy and I drive an old Mazda3 sedan that we've had for almost almost a decade and a half. It's what some Europeans might call a family car. It has fun driving dynamics which I care about and enjoy, though that seems to put me in a tiny minority. It's even practical enough that I have hauled home 8-foot lumber dozens of times with the back seats folded down, because I actually build shit unlike most of the truck drivers.

It sucks knowing all the SUVs with their rushed & distracted drivers weigh 50% more than my vehicle, sure. But the pickup trucks have become caricatures of themselves. I'm sure most folks in this community have seen the charts showing how terrible the forward-looking visibility is in modern pickups versus everything from older trucks to heavy construction equipment. It's like the number one feature driving sales is how fucking high off the ground they can get the hood/bonnet.

It's like driving around mobile buildings. The front grilles of these vehicles are just a vertical wall. And even for how large and high the entire bodies of these vehicles are, the new look seems to be having the hood/bonnet in the front sitting even higher than the edges of the bed in the back. I might think that automakers were in competition to see who could get the most customer's children run over, but I am all too familiar with our garbage culture where everything is a competition and every other person must fall on a spectrum somewhere between rival and mortal enemy.

[-] SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 1 points 13 hours ago

Did you change the first graph from weight to horsepower?

[-] qevlarr@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago
[-] SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 1 points 13 hours ago

In the US? Definitely.

Worldwide, slightly less so, but generally agreed.

More expensive oil won't help oversized EVs that much.

Large vehicles being expensive (both to buy and operate) also results in them becoming status symbols and then you get conspicuous consumption.

[-] sparkyshocks@lemmy.zip 3 points 18 hours ago

There are a few different stories going on here.

One story is engineering success. The engineers squeeze out so much more performance per amount of gasoline burned, that the cost of extra weight from a fuel economy standard is significantly less than 25 or 50 years ago. If you chart the fuel efficiency over the same time period, the fleet average fuel economy went from 20 to 34 mpg, even as vehicles were getting more powerful and heavier. A 2026 Camry Hybrid has a 232 hp drivetrain (184 hp from the gasoline engine) that manages to push 3700 lbs 0-60 in 6.8 seconds. Those are sports car stats from the 80's, and yet the modern Camry manages to get 44 miles per gallon in fuel economy. Charting emissions shows an even more pronounced improvement.

Similarly, the rise of electric vehicles has increased the average vehicle weight. Batteries are heavy, and the whole chassis needs to accommodate that.

Another story is unintended consequences from dumb regulations. The fuel economy standards were updated for the 2011 model year to allow a sliding scale where vehicles with larger footprints were allowed to be less fuel efficient. Naturally, smaller vehicles were disincentivized, and compact trucks and compact cars all but disappeared. These regs need to be updated, and we'll see the return of smaller vehicles for those of us who prefer them.

And another story is shifting consumer preferences. For a whole bunch of reasons, Americans have expressed a preference for taller and taller vehicles, where crossover SUVs are much more common than the old wagons, the relative balance of sedans versus SUVs has shifted entirely in favor of SUVs.

[-] pilaz@lemmy.world 3 points 19 hours ago

Right-sizing cars is the cheapest, most rational option for space and public money. There is no reason not to do it other than wasting precious public and private resources into building more parking spots and repairing road infrastructures more often.

[-] 5parky@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

Meanwhile, the average parking stall is smaller than a 1978 Honda Civic.

[-] antianarchist@sopuli.xyz 21 points 1 day ago

American cars cover more pavement than they ever have

Then goes ahead and shows a change from 48.9 to 51.8

Whoever made those charts wanted to make the change look bad, no matter what.

Where is the chart of the average heavy injuries per passenger? Or the average energy efficiency of engines?

When it comes to covering pavement, it also starts at like 2008. Which is funny because I can guarantee you just from being around them that cars from the 70s were gigantic. Long hoods, big old protruding trunks.

I imagine the reason why the change is so small and why it's not quite a linear progression. There is that initial decrease again immediately post recession is just the shift in what's available for stock in the US.

The height of the SUV boom pre-recession, those cars were big. Like, we have CUVs now. Those are built on car chassis, which means they are about as long as a car is, about as wide as the car that they're based off of. For example, a Mazda CX6 is just a Mazda 6, but like, fatter. The popular SUVs of the late 2000s were like actually full-on SUVs built on heavy truck platforms. So we had things like the Hummer and of course the Escalade of the day which were gargantuan. At the same time, because those vehicles got like single digit miles per gallon, people tended to also have commuter cars, which were also a lot cheaper back then. We're talking like low 10,000s or less.

Post-recession though, like we did start seeing a lot more small cars again. For example Chevy brought in the Aveo and eventually the beat in the spark, Honda Fitts became bigger in terms of popularity, Ford brought over the Fiesta. And then gas went down again and because Americans have memories like a goldfish when it comes to gas, car sizes started growing again. When it happened again a few times during the 2010s and of course the big one during the pandemic and now cars had gotten more efficient in terms of their engine engineering and in terms of the prevalence of things like electric cars and hybrid units.

So that mid-sized CUV Is able to get better mile per gallon age or similar mile per gallon age to what someone driving around in a compact in 2007 might have gotten.

There's also a lot of unintended consequences from safety and computer designed aerodynamic models that have led to cars being shaped a very specific way with very thick A, B and C pillars which make the car door openings smaller which make the taller CUV options a little more appealing as well.

Also, just as an aside, I'm sure full-sized trucks wreck the curve because those have been getting bigger and bigger and bigger and it's kind of nuts how big they are and how, despite that, they're also less practical as work vehicles than ever before. Genuinely kind of stupid.

[-] skisnow@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

injuries per passenger

The fact that you phrased this so specifically to not mention the corresponding increased danger to other road users and pedestrians, suggests you’re a shill pushing industry talking points.

[-] jumping_redditor@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 hours ago

to be somewhat fair to the auto industry pedestrian habbits probably changed, but they probably changed to be more afraid of cars.

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[-] Jiral@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

The graphs are terrible but come on, a 10% increase in weight in 10 years, doesn't sound bad to you? Especially when the base value was anything but low to begin with? And an increased space consumption of 6% is a huge additional space consumption in absolute numbers, given the huge numbers of cars.

[-] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago

The weight gain could theoretically be explained by the simple fact that electric vehicles are heavier than their combustion counterpart.

Though I'm well aware these are american cars so probably just means more bigger pickup trucks that will never ever be used to actually pick things up.

[-] bold_atlas@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yeah, electric versions of American monstrosities are part of the same problem and completely offsets any EV benefit. They just shouldn't exist.

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[-] zergtoshi@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

The 5 square meters are no accurate display of the pavement covered by those cars, because they're much longer than just their wheelbase.

[-] sparkyshocks@lemmy.zip 1 points 18 hours ago

Has the average ratio changed over time?

I would've expected the ratio to actually shift the other way, where the wheelbase represents a larger percentage of the overall length/width of the vehicle, because American fuel economy regulations actually rewarded vehicles for having larger wheelbases. This killed small cars like the Honda Fit and small trucks like the Ford Ranger.

Also, it seems to be much easier to park vehicles whose front wheels are as far forward as possible. The greater the ratio of wheelbase to overall dimensions, the easier it is to maneuver, and anecdotally it seems easier to maneuver modern cars than cars from 25 years ago.

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[-] jenesaisquoi@feddit.org 23 points 1 day ago

square metres

US-americans will get a stroke

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[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

America needs to make its own KEI car standard. at least they wouldnt be as dangerous for pedestrians, or as disastrous for the environment as the fucking rolling city blocks we have now.

Especially since we're never gonna get a functional public transit system.

[-] Taldan@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

I'd settle for at least legalizing Kei trucks across the country

It's beyond frustrating that I can't even drive my own Kei truck on public roads where I live

[-] jumping_redditor@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 hours ago

I wonder if also legalizing 4 wheelers on public roads would improve the odds of it passing

[-] AeonFelis@lemmy.world 2 points 19 hours ago

legalizing Kei

No can do. That would be one letter away from legalizing DEI.

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[-] massive_bereavement@fedia.io 19 points 1 day ago

12 yards long, 2 lanes wide, 65 tons of American pride!

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[-] Folstar@lemmus.org 6 points 1 day ago

Chart has clearly labeled x and y axis in addition to writing the numbers directly on the line.

Trogs: this is misleading as fuck!

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 day ago

Fat people want big cars. You can overlay these graphs.

[-] rollerbang@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

This would be interesting to see with height as well.

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[-] benjirenji@slrpnk.net 8 points 1 day ago

It's an arms race. I prefer a bicycle, but am I really insane enough to ride it in between these tanks? My wife is afraid in traffic, she would never want to get a small car, just because of her safety concerns.

The only thing stopping this madness is regulations.

[-] SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I'm not sure it's reasonable to directly complain about fast 0-60 times. Slower acceleration removes options and makes merging more difficult; not all high speed roads have onramps of adequate length.

Definitely agreed on weight.

The Y scale on the third graph is a joke; that's like a 4% change over 20 years. Wheelbase is not the same as vehicle length.

I don't know if these graphs, again, I don't know what the source is, it's not really provided, but I don't think they're meant to make a specific judgment one way or another.

Well, except the note that cars have gotten bigger while also becoming more efficient.

[-] SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 1 points 13 hours ago

It explicitly says "on this chart, down is worse".

[-] destructdisc@lemmy.world 23 points 1 day ago

I’m not sure it’s reasonable to directly complain about fast 0-60 times

It is certainly cause for concern when heavier and larger moving objects that are able to reach high speeds quicker are being controlled by increasingly more irresponsible people.

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this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2026
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