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[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 128 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Economists have predicted 20 of the last 5 recessions...

Economics is great at explaining why something happened or what may happen in the future but complete shit at predicting when something will happen.

For a decade in the run up to the 2008 housing crash everyone was saying it was just around the corner but they were wrong for 9 of the 10 years.

If every year you predict the world will end or the market will crash, eventually you will be correct...

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 45 points 2 years ago

Right, but if you're watching someone blow up a balloon, you know eventually it will pop even if you don't know exactly when. That doesn't mean you're wrong to suggest we should stop inflating the balloon to avoid the pop.

If you just say the market will crash, maybe it will or maybe it won't. If you say that the conditions exist for a crash, and describe them accurately, you're right whether there is a crash or not.

And if you say there's 100% chance, not only are you likely to be wrong, you're also a useless moron deserving of ridicule.

[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago

if you’re watching someone blow up a balloon, you know eventually it will pop even if you don’t know exactly when.

There are two problems with this.

1: When a lot of people are making money by inflating the balloon, telling them to stop is not going to work well.

2: If the ballon ends up taking 20 breaths to pop and you are telling them to stop every time they blow in the ballon and it doesn't for the first 19 times, they tend to think you are the boy who cried wolf and just keep on ignoring you.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago
  1. You're right, that's why you need legislation and regulation to prevent them from blowing up the balloon. The people pointing out the causal relationship aren't necessarily in a position to do that themselves, they need to raise awareness so that there is sufficient concern to do something about it. That ain't happening as long as bribery is legal, but that's not the economist's fault.

  2. That's also not the economist's fault. Raising the alarm and accurately predicting the causes of a crash are the things the economist are supposed to do. The boy who cried wolf was pretending when he raised the alarm. The economist is accurately describing the state of affairs, and the potential ramifications. Whether it takes 20 breaths or 100, the balloon will pop unless we take action and that remains true. If the boy who cried wolf saw wolves, and the wolves didn't attack the sheep the first night, the boy is still doing his job to warn people. To torture this analogy a bit more, it's like everyone can see the approaching wolves, and it is the townspeople who are the idiots for not believing the boy.

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[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 30 points 2 years ago

Economics is great at coming up with plausible sounding stories about why things happened, but that doesn't mean those explanations are correct. The fact that the same theories lead to incorrect predictions is a strong indicator that the explanations are wrong, too.

Or to put it more bluntly, most of the field of economics looks a lot like a pseudoscience.

[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 20 points 2 years ago

most of the field of economics looks a lot like a pseudoscience.

Well, when one of the founding assumptions is that humans make rational economic decisions, you are in for a bad time.

[-] WalrusDragonOnABike@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

What if you assume they have infinite time horizons or instantaneous and free transaction costs over infinite distances?

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

Assume that this cow is a sphere

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[-] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 94 points 2 years ago

They couldn’t resist adding “in blow to Biden”

Stupid fucks.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

I guess biden got that blow after all

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago

You're thinking of Clinton.

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[-] June@lemm.ee 42 points 2 years ago

Shit like this is why we had the layoffs we say at the beginning of the year. It was all hysteria made up by a bunch of idiots who want a recession for…. Reasons.

The economy is strong, inflation is down overall (though still high), and unemployment has been below 4% for nearly 2 years, something we haven’t seen for more than 20 years.

The recession we’ve seen this year is fake.

[-] MeteorOfTheWar@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 years ago

Not so much fake, as manufactured.

The jobs market was doing well, unemployment was low. Many middle-class people had been working remotely for two years, and saved thousands in commuting costs. The housing market was leveling out, prices were reasonable, and interest rates were low.

People were finally starting to feel an inkling of security and independence. They could afford to buy a house, change jobs, sell the second car, and put some money away for a rainy day.

Which is a nightmare scenario for corporations that feed on a financially desperate populace.

So corporations jacked up prices, blaming supply-chain issues, forced workers back into the office, and laid off thousands despite record profits.

The Fed pitched in, hiking interest rates, and locking millions of Americans out of the housing market, and with it, their best path to financial independence, and vowed to keep those rates high until the unemployment rate was back at a level that the Corporate masters determined sufficiently punitive, and the working class had exhausted their savings.

When the workers are acceptably cowed, and the wealthy are satisfied that they will no longer resist subjugation, they will declare the economy 'back to normal'

[-] boywar3@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

Just remember that low unemployment often means severe "underemployment" as people with degrees and other qualifications are forced to take jobs that pay significantly less.

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[-] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 36 points 2 years ago

lol that rag will take any chance to attack anyone left of center

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 73 points 2 years ago
[-] A_cook_not_a_chef@lemmy.world 33 points 2 years ago

Which is crazy to me. He's a huge neolib. He may be more progressive than anticipated, but he certainly isn't on the left.

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[-] lolrightythen@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

Lol, gottem!

[-] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago

Took me a second. Good one.

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[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 34 points 2 years ago

The GDP fell for two quarters though. They just changed the definition of recession.

[-] Peaty@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 years ago

No they did not. The NBER is always the office that declares a recession and they did not do so because employment numbers did not match recession like conditions.

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[-] sturmblast@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago

Never trust financial institutions opinions

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[-] dangblingus@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago

There was a recession earlier this year but the media didn't want to report on it.

2 consecutive quarters with negative GDP growth is a recession. There's been like 2 or 3 since 2020.

[-] drphungky@lemmy.world 26 points 2 years ago

Well first off, there was not remotely a recession this year. In 2022 we also did not have a recession, but a lot of people thought the NBER might call it one because of two consecutive quarters of real GDP going down. However, it barely went down, and other economic indicators looked very good (plus the rest of the year was a boom), so they didn't call it. A contemporary explanation from the Dallas fed is here and explains it: https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2022/0802/

Second off, the media DID report on it, because it's economic news. But it's economic news, so therefore boring and probably most people missed it.

Contemporary reporting by NPR

Contemporary reporting by CNBC

Contemporary reporting by Forbes

Contemporary reporting by Business Insider

Reuters recent analysis

More Recent Forbes

I could obviously keep going. But your hints at conspiracy and some kind of media involvement are both facile and uninformed.

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[-] Peaty@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 years ago

The NBER, who declare recessions, never said there was one because the jobs numbers did not in any way suggest a recession. It's not just two quarters of negative growth that determine a recession and based on the fact that in Q1&2 it was fairly easy to find work suggested to the NBER that we weren't in a recession but rather a new an undefined situation.

[-] Yewb@kbin.social 12 points 2 years ago

Just keep changing the way you calculate inflation every 2 years, problem solved.

[-] Melkath@kbin.social 10 points 2 years ago

All of the people who can still afford food and housing forgetting that the world doesn't revolve around them and that the world is in the midst of a depression...

Not Bidens fault mind you. It's just another global systemic failure to add to the list.

[-] halvo317@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 years ago
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[-] Ulvain@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 years ago

Don't get your panties in a bunch - they said 100% likely but they didn't talk about the 80% margin of error, that's all!

[-] ManosTheHandsOfFate@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

"The report of my death was an exaggeration." -Mark Twain

[-] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 9 points 2 years ago

True, but that most likely means that the Finance houses found a new bubble or regulation capture that will allow them to buy mega yachts for a few more years until it blows up and governments bail them out with public money again.

[-] zepheriths@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

You know who else has a recession? ( going by public definition of recession of 2 quarters of negative gdp growth)

[-] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

It's not a prediction if it already happened.

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this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
671 points (100.0% liked)

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