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The Windows 11 problem (www.spacebar.news)
submitted 11 months ago by corbin@infosec.pub to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[-] qwertyqwertyqwerty@lemmy.world 155 points 11 months ago

Honestly, between the telemetry data collection, the strange hardware requirements, advertisements, bloatware, and unknown future licensing model, Linux is looking like an attractive option. At this point, I only use Windows for Office and gaming, and Linux + Proton has gotten really good lately. I don't see a reason to use Windows on my personal machine any more.

[-] OldQWERTYbastard@lemmy.world 105 points 11 months ago

We don't use the word "Spyware" like we did twenty years ago. It's baked into Windows now.

[-] magic_lobster_party@kbin.social 33 points 11 months ago

They could bring back BonziBuddy and nobody would bat an eye

[-] queue 35 points 11 months ago

Bonzi Buddy is called Cortana now.

[-] hperrin@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

This needs to be a “this is her now. Feel old yet?” meme.

[-] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 21 points 11 months ago

At this point, Bonzibuddy is damn near benign compared to what we're dealing with now.

[-] sweetchildintime@lemmy.world 45 points 11 months ago

Linux is fine for people like you and me who are comfortable installing our own operating system, and trouble-shooting any problems. Most 'normal' people though will continue to walk into a store, buy a laptop, and use whatever came installed.

Of course, the year of Linux on the desktop actually happened some time ago without anyone noticing. It's called ChromeOS, and that's a whole different can of worms.

[-] SkyeStarfall 33 points 11 months ago

While true, how much troubleshooting does windows require? Because as I sometimes use windows, it's not that much less work to get it to do what you want it to do, or solve issues, than linux.

Especially since it feels like windows tries to fight you every step of the way.

[-] echo64@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

When windows needs fixing, people take it to the best buy genius bar or whatever

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[-] pete_the_cat@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

Most distributions require little to no troubleshooting, and if they do, someone has probably already posted the solution online. It's pretty rare these days that you run into a problem that someone else hasn't and you're stuck figuring it out yourself.

The only pain point is trying to find the Linux equivalent of the Windows apps that you commonly use. Web browsers are the exact same, but that's about it. A fair amount of apps to offer Linux counterparts though.

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[-] pete_the_cat@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago

Once people get over the initial Windows indoctrination, Linux is simple to use and doesn't require tons of complex troubleshooting like people think. Before the COVID lockdown I tried for the Nth time to get my dad to use Linux. I had it installed and told him to stick with it for a few weeks (he only browses the web and plays solitaire). If he still didn't like it, I'd reenable Windows. Well that few weeks turned into 6 months. Now both he and my mom have been happy Linux users for about 2 years.

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[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 15 points 11 months ago

Until you realize that many orgs have software that only works on windows.

Its not a great situation

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[-] a_fancy_kiwi@lemmy.world 80 points 11 months ago

I could probably tolerate Windows 11 if:

  • the start menu search didn’t search the web and just searched my system.
  • the widget panel wasn’t just a wrapper for their shitty news aggregator that seems to only gather celebrity news
  • If I have windows pro, I don’t want notifications to use Edge or see TikTok, Amazon, Candycrush, etc. in the start menu (I know they aren’t downloaded but what “pro” wants any of that shit)
[-] fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.world 21 points 11 months ago

the start menu search didn’t search the web and just searched my system.

Windows 10 has the same problem, that one isn't unique to 11.

Widgets I don't think there's anything that can save that. 10% of the space is set aside for actual widgets, the rest is just their "news".

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[-] Neeen@sh.itjust.works 9 points 11 months ago

I used a regedit to fix the web search part of it. Starallback is what I use to fix the rest of it. After that, it's almost like I'm using Windows 10.

Changing audio output does still take an extra click compared to before, but I've just been dealing with that.

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[-] HidingCat@kbin.social 59 points 11 months ago

ITT: People who just read the headlines and not the article, and then going off on their own Windows rant/Linux evangelism instead of discussing the article.

[-] corbin@infosec.pub 30 points 11 months ago

A certified Lemmy/Reddit classic.

[-] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 13 points 11 months ago

I hardly ever saw Linux evangelism on Reddit. It's honestly becoming about on par with veganism at this point... And that's coming from someone that uses and enjoys Linux.

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[-] hperrin@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago

I read the article and I still evangelize Linux.

[-] riskable@programming.dev 16 points 11 months ago

I read the article! It suggests in a hundred different ways that Windows 11 sucks and that sticking it out with Windows 10 is a bad idea for a dozen different reasons.

The people here suggesting Linux nailed it. If you're not using Linux at this point you're just being lazy, IMHO. If you have any issues you can always just troubleshoot and fix it but based on the anecdotes posted so far it's obvious no one claiming to have tried Linux has done much of that.

Get off your ass and learn something new for real or stop bitching and bend over for Microsoft with your wallet ready to pay them afterwards for the privilege.

People bitching about Windows on their personal PCs is like people who don't vote bitching about politics.

[-] HidingCat@kbin.social 27 points 11 months ago

No, I just want to use my time in other ways, thank you. You can call it lazy, but that's what it is. Windows 10 still works, the issues won't come till 2025, and regardless, Windows 11 issues are mostly personal preferences (I just want my task bar to work in a certain way).

This religious-like evangelising over Linux is such a turn off, regardless of whatever technical merits the OS might have. It's definitely not moving the needle for me, and it's turning me off the fediverse.

[-] zammy95@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

Linux has tons of perks! If you don't care, awesome! Have a nice day and enjoy whatever you want.

I don't see how this is a difficult concept for so many haha. Like yeah, you can like something and think it's a better way to do something, but I do LOADS of things the "wrong way". Who cares

[-] HidingCat@kbin.social 12 points 11 months ago

That's why the Linux crowd here I describe as evangelical. I'm going to say that even the vegans aren't as annoyingly zealous.

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[-] corbin@infosec.pub 15 points 11 months ago

Linux is great but it’s not always an option. It doesn’t run every app or game that Windows has (Proton is great but it’s not 100%), or maybe you’re doing dev work that has to be on a Windows machine, or you’re using some hardware that isn’t supported well in Linux. I switched off Linux to Windows (and then later to macOS) partially because Photoshop and Lightroom are pretty great tools for my job and the workarounds/alternatives weren’t cutting it.

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[-] BestBouclettes@jlai.lu 14 points 11 months ago

Putting this burden straight on the consumer is stupid. Most people don't care about what's running on their machines and have absolutely no interest in learning it. Same thing with cars, you know how to operate it and that's enough for 95% of the people. I agree that Linux is not that hard to learn and understand but that's already too much for the standard consumer.

The issue is and has always been with Microsoft and the deals it had with OEM and governments. It locked us into a Microsoft only world (office being absolutely everywhere, windows installed by default on 99% of hardware etc.), and things that were unveiled by the Halloween Papers etc.. Microsoft changed its stance on FOSS but it's only because they managed to profit from it (azure mostly). It's still the same garbage company.

[-] Pasta4u@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

Every half a decade or so since windows 95 I have tried Linux and I have come to the same conclusion each time. I rather use windows 95.

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[-] kubica@kbin.social 56 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I can understand that sometimes hardware needs to be deprecated, but windows 11 is trying to ditch hardware that is still quite new. And with all the chip problems and expenses it has not been so feasible to "just" get something more up to date.

If I'm going to buy something with the same money that I bought what I have now I'm going to end with about the same pefromance of what I have.

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[-] NegativeLookBehind@kbin.social 44 points 11 months ago

~~The Windows 11 problem~~

The problem: Windows 11

FTFY

[-] nabladabla@sopuli.xyz 32 points 11 months ago

They used to say that 10 would be the last version and they'd just update that

[-] Raxiel@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago

Apparently that was never the official line, and was just something a "dev evangelist" (marketer) said at some conference and it stuck

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[-] Romkslrqusz@lemm.ee 29 points 11 months ago

Windows 11 definitely has its issues, but I don’t think the author of this article has sufficient knowledge to be writing articles about it.

There’s not a great solution for switching to UEFI in an existing install

MBR2GPT is baked into Windows and works great as long as you don’t have a jacked up partition layout.

Windows 11 demands a Trusted Platform Module (TPM) 2.0 security coprocessor, which isn’t in many PCs that meet all the other requirements.

Part of the reason that Intel 8xxx and Ryzen 2xxx processors are the baseline “requirement” is that they have fTPM 2.0 embedded in the silicon. It’s actually in the overwhelming majority of devices that meet the other requirements.

There appears to be no loss in functionality when bypassing the installation requirements… so why do they exist?

Microsoft could provide a more limited Windows 11 experience to PCs that don’t meet the strict requirements

Microsoft doesn’t go out of their way to hide the fact that you can install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware.

By providing and sanctioning a “limited” experience, Microsoft would then have to dedicate resources to supporting that experience. I’ve worked with tons of legacy devices that had odd quirks that required workarounds in Windows 10, so I can’t really blame them for wanting to limit how they spend their support resources.

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[-] hperrin@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago

It’s easier than ever to switch to Linux, especially if the thing holding you back was gaming.

[-] Neon@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

i actually switched back to Windows from Linux because it didn't work well with different resolutions and scaling and my Programs kept crashing.

[-] DudeDudenson@lemmings.world 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Inb4 "it's your fault" comments

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[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 23 points 11 months ago

I say we boycott windows 11

[-] itsraining@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago
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[-] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 11 months ago

Already with ya! I’m never touching 11. I still use 10 for games, but debloated and telemetry disabled.

When I reformat I’m going Linux, with a small 10 partition for VR/games that run better on Windows.

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[-] tunahanyilmaz@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

I've stayed away from Windows 11 because of the bloatware and TPM requirements. Turns out, my old processor that was rejected by Microsoft actually had TPM 2.0, it just needed to be enabled from the BIOS. Well, I installed it a few days ago and everything look great. The bloatware was a problem but there are FOSS apps for that. The UI looks clean, the taskbar is uncluttered, and I feel stupid for not updating before. I don't know if I'm the minority here but I think that for most users Windows 11 is easier and more accessible.

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[-] KpntAutismus@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago

guess who's jumping ship as soon as win10 acts up again? i'm not gonna pay a win11 subscription.

[-] Bipta@kbin.social 22 points 11 months ago

Windows 11 is not subscription...

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[-] Send_me_nude_girls@feddit.de 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Windows 11 soon gets more AI integration. Scanning all your files and content of files, this is no conspiracy. Deleting your Microsoft account if it detects misbehavior, even if you never shared this private info with anyone. You'll also not be able to program anything you want anymore, because if the AI detects it's possibly malicious, it will delete your Microsoft account.

It's probably a lot of fun if you have stuff on your onedrive or use outlook.

Why is there so little outrage about this? I hope it doesn't release for win10 or is blockable.

Edit: first is German though https://tarnkappe.info/artikel/netzpolitik/microsofts-neuer-servicevertrag-erlaubt-totalueberwachung-aller-nutzer-280856.html

https://www.microsoft.com/de-de/servicesagreement/default.aspx

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/DigitalSafety/moderation-and-enforcement/content-detection

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna

[-] corbin@infosec.pub 22 points 11 months ago

I have not seen anything about Microsoft accounts getting deleted for AI falsely identifying something as malicious. Windows Defender and OneDrive do scan your files for malware, yeah.

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this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
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