Will China be able to poach scientists from the West? (www.bostonglobe.com)

submitted 3 days ago by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/science@lemmy.world

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But with federal support for scientific research now unpredictable in the United States, and as Europe increasingly invests in its military defense (possibly at the expense of basic science), a brain drain to China may be possible in the coming years.

Hugo Darras is a French scientist who recently joined Zhejiang University from the University of Mainz in Germany, where he was a junior group leader studying evolutionary genomics in insects. He says that one draw for him was the Chinese students. “In Europe, it has become very difficult to find students that are motivated to do research,” Darras says. “The students that have a passion for their projects are very difficult to find, and that’s very frustrating.” In contrast, he’s found that in China, the students are enthusiastic and work extremely hard.

Siegfried Roth, a German researcher studying the evolution and development of insects at the University of Cologne, recently retired at age 67 due to Germany’s strict retirement rules. But he still had research questions he wanted to answer. “At the end of your career, you are very rarely in the position that you have solved all the questions which were on your heart and which you wanted to finish,” he says. The opportunity to do research in China offered a chance to pursue “some of the questions I had — even some of the bigger ones, which we got close to answering but couldn’t.”

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[-] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 43 points 3 days ago

I am one of the US scientists who is moving to the EU due to the US’s anti science policies. I, of course, cannot speak for all US scientists, but China is an unlikely draw for most of the scientists I know. While the US is descending into fascism, China is already there. I’m not sure how many people I know are eager to live in that type of system in exchange for funding. I know a few who are heading to the EU and Canada. Those who are in dire straights due to funding issues are switching to industry positions or changing fields altogether. People from China or Hong Kong who are in research positions in the US, I would expect are more likely to go to China though.

[-] My_IFAKs___gone@lemmy.world 23 points 3 days ago

Those were my thoughts, too. Until China starts some serious human's rights reforms, it would be hard to see any intellectuals wanting to go there after having grown up and worked in largely democratic societies. No one with a brain geared toward questioning the status quo or the norm would feel comfortable in a regime under the CCP.

[-] scarabic@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

In addition to their form of government, there is the everyday living experience to consider. China is modern and clean in some places but culturally, what is it like being an American professional in China? I actually don’t know because I don’t know anyone who’s actually done it. Japan, Thailand, Singapore, UK, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Canada, all yes, several times over. China? Not one. Why is that?

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 points 2 days ago

thier main cities of economy, beijing, shenzou i think are probably where one would live.

[-] scarabic@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Guangzhou, Shanghai, and Shenzen also come to mind

[-] eleitl@lemmy.zip 13 points 3 days ago

The EU is, unfortunately, also aboard the fascist train. It's just running slightly behind schedule.

[-] Hapankaali@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago

Also, EU countries are cutting research and education budgets to make room for military spending.

Signed, former EU scientist now working in the defense industry.

[-] eleitl@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 days ago

Likewise, in consulting now plenty positions in defense/arms which require a security clearance.

[-] scarabic@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Well :) the train arrived 75 years ago, and now we’re waiting for it to return.

[-] Gonzako@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

How did you get the opportunity to move? I am personally looking to move inside the EU but quite of a doozy

[-] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

I was fortunate. I was offered a research position from an EU country so it comes with a work visa.

[-] deroyonz@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 days ago

I recommend avoiding that archive site where able as per https://lemmy.zip/post/59531539

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

doubtful, china is pretty restrictive on specific "science" that is state sanctioned much like how companies are only state sanctioned they do, alot of the time they tend fudge numbers, and papers are often heavily scrutinized internationally and not well accepted. better off going to the EU, AUS,NZ if you want legitimate institution for research and publish proper PAPERS that are peer reviewed. plus the political nature of the ccp, means you have to tread carefully in the country too. alot of tech they heavily rely on reverse engineering rather than innovation, with research so it makes them questionable. As far as china goes, it is a mega biodiversity hotspot especially in the more tropical areas, untold amount of plants are being discovered, those are the only legit papers coming out of china, WITH international help that is.

no need to move to china, when you can move to EU and collobarate with chinese scientists.

[-] ageedizzle@piefed.ca 20 points 3 days ago

Hopefully Canada and Europe can capitalize on this moment and scoop up some US based researchers during this brain drain. It would be a shame if researchers felt the need to go to China instead

[-] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 days ago

As a scientist my take of someone complaining about domestic v international students is that they want to treat students like shit. Much easier to do in China with 996 type culture. They want to underpay and overwork the people in their lab. Quantity of time working>quality of time working.

Most anyone pursuing a PhD is passionate, domestic students are harder to treat like shit because you can't threaten their visa.

That out of the way France and the UK have put forward some funding for recruitment of US scientists but it is so far only temporary. So retaining actual scientists long-term is still a problem.

[-] My_IFAKs___gone@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Thank you for your science.

[-] Mavvik@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 days ago

Europe is in a good position to capitalize on this but Canada does not seriously fund scientific research.

[-] ageedizzle@piefed.ca 3 points 3 days ago

The university of Toronto has been scoping up some good American researchers in the humanities with the munk school. Not sure what the situation is with the sciences though