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submitted 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) by AfterOnions@lemmy.world to c/workreform@lemmy.world
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[-] AmbitiousProcess@piefed.social 42 points 16 hours ago

Good sentiment, but DO NOT SUPPORT "Americans for Tax Fairness", because they're actually a horrendous organization.

They want to abolish the IRS and abolish all federal income and capital gains taxes, (and repeal the amendment to the constitution that makes it possible in the first place) and instead have a tax exclusive rate of 30% sales tax to replace it.

As you should know, sales taxes are regressive taxes, because the poorest people spend the largest percent of their income, while billionaires spend less, and hoard more. Essentially, the richest people get the lowest tax rate, because they don't have to spend all of their income to survive, unlike someone living on the streets who'll have to spend every last penny they have just to get food, thus getting taxed on their entire income while billionaires only get taxed on part of theirs.

[-] reabsorbthelight@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

The article says this

Sen. Wyden’s proposed Billionaires Income Tax (BIT) would tax the wealth gains of billionaires and those with consistent income above $100 million. Currently, such investment gains are only taxed if the underlying asset is sold. But the ultrawealthy don’t have to sell to benefit. They can secure low-interest loans secured against their rising fortunes and live luxuriously tax-free. Under Wyden’s plan, such wealth-growth income would be taxed every year just like worker wages are now. The Joint Committee on Taxation estimated this proposal would raise $557 billion in new revenue over the next decade from just a small number of ultra-wealthy oligarchs.

I don't like wealth tax for a number of reasons, but a capital gains tax on unrealized gains that phases in after a certain amount seems very fair. The phasing in is important because average people's homes and other assets should be untouched imo, but after a certain amount of unrealized income it should be.

I'd also suggest taxing secured low interest loans as a form of realized capital gains.

I would also suggest allowing taxes to be paid in stock shares (eg. not USD). It might prevent liquidity market issues

[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 7 points 16 hours ago

I think I could get behind that if essentials aren't taxable.

Where I live, groceries aren't taxed. Going beyond that, make things like soap and lightbulbs untaxable, and it seems like a decent system. Maybe even prepared meals that cost under 1 hour of minimum wage work, an item of clothing that costs under 1 day of minimum wage work...

I dunno, if there were exclusions, would it really be that bad?

[-] AmbitiousProcess@piefed.social 10 points 15 hours ago

It would be better than a blanket tax for sure, but still produces bad incentives.

That kind of system still encourages wealth hoarding, because it costs more to spend money than it does to save/invest it. We already know billionaires aren't just hoarding wealth to spend it all, because most of them only spend a fraction of it. They hoard it because there is a psychological mechanism that makes them feel like they just need a bigger number no matter what.

There's a limit to how much one person can spend on things they'll actually want, but there's no limit on just how high the number can go if they keep funneling more and more money into their bank and brokerage accounts, which means you effectively cap out the tax rate on billionaires.

In a system like that, if a regular person has $1,000 per month in money to spend, and spends $500 on goods that are still taxed, that's 50% of their income getting taxed. A billionaire might have a billion dollars, and only spend a few thousandths of that every year for a way better personal experience than that person spending $500. You might then only have about 0.1% of that billionaire's income getting taxed, while the rest rots in a bank account, never to be spent or become economically valuable to anyone.

The best tax system is one based on income, or better yet, including actual held wealth, because hoarding more produces less and less returns as time goes on, to the point that spending that money is more beneficial to that person than hoarding it and getting to keep, say, 1% or less of those earnings after taxes. (and even if they do keep hoarding, 99% of that money's going back to other people and programs anyways)

Spending that money returns it to the economy, which in turn provides more jobs, distributes that wealth to lower classes more than it would otherwise be if it just sat in a bank account, and is generally economically beneficial.

Essentially, an income + wealth tax is "hoard money too much and we will use it to benefit everyone", whereas a sales tax, even one limited just to nonessentials, is "if you don't choose to hoard your money and decide to spend it, then you gotta give a little back" Billionaires shouldn't get to decide if they're taxed or not, so why give them the ability to do so by tying it to if they choose to consume a given amount of nonessential goods?

[-] Rhaedas@fedia.io 2 points 15 hours ago

Isn't there already a luxury tax, which would be the only fair tax. Aside from a top bracket tax of say, 90%, like it used to be. Plus there is the problem of income taxes not touching much of the actual "worth" of a billionaire.

[-] AfterOnions@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago

LVT is the best tax. There should be a minimum tax on unrealized capital gains.

[-] AmbitiousProcess@piefed.social 1 points 10 hours ago

LVT is the best tax.

LVT is a pretty good tax, but you don't use it in isolation. It exists to make property taxes more progressive, not to make taxation as a whole more progressive.

To do that, you need to replace regressive taxes like the sales tax with progressive taxes like wealth and income taxes, and have rising tax brackets (or sloped steadily increasing taxes) that effectively account for less and less of people's acquired wealth being necessary or good for society as the amount grows larger.

There should be a minimum tax on unrealized capital gains.

Totally agree, though I think to a degree there should be some limits, (e.g. under $1m in assets, adjusted for inflation, it doesn't apply) so regular people don't have to worry about things like managing how much assets they'll have to liquidate to pay their taxes each year, which would make planning for retirement very difficult.

Most of the stock market is owned by the ultra wealthy anyways, so the tax would still account for most capital gains while making everyone else's lives much easier.

[-] protist@mander.xyz 3 points 14 hours ago

Land value tax? How would that fix any of this shit? That wouldn't even make a dent in the wealth disparities we're seeing in the US

[-] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 17 hours ago

Imagine being so mentally ill that when you reach 250.000.000 dollars worth, you wake up every morning thinking about how to earn more.

[-] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 9 points 15 hours ago

They don't earn more. No billionaire has ever earned their worth. The vast majority exploit others work, and a very select few are born into money or win the lottory.

[-] Rhaedas@fedia.io 6 points 15 hours ago

It's not about money at that point. That will take care of itself. It's about power and control, and feeding the ego.

[-] potatopotato@sh.itjust.works 13 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

It's so interesting seeing the whole list. Most of these guys are around the same age and were the survivors of the dot com bubble. It really speaks to how economically inefficient things have become when one relatively isolated event in a particular (and at the time narrow) industry created a distinct economic class that now just arbitrarily runs the country despite being extremely detached from it.

It feels a bit like the "paperclipping" AI doomsday scenario but instead of paperclips the tech oligarchs only understand tech and are just mindlessly trying to use all of the nations resources to make more tech companies.

[-] Rhaedas@fedia.io 3 points 15 hours ago

I have heard the idea that we already have AGI (and all the dangers that come with it) in the form of corporations. And corporation that has a billionaire in complete control of the goal and direction of a company would be very similar, expressing one public side goal but actually having a different one in mind.

[-] Linktank@lemmy.today 4 points 14 hours ago

Forget taxes, these fuckers should be SLAIN.

[-] ElectricAirship@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 17 hours ago

$7,600,000,000,000

[-] LemmyShemmy@aussie.zone 1 points 16 hours ago

And we're here trying to win the race. Lets gooooo my 9-5s from directors to managers to bottom bitches 

this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2026
262 points (100.0% liked)

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