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submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by HowRu68@lemmy.world to c/europe@feddit.org

The safety organisation VeiligheidNL estimates that 5,000 fatbike riders are treated in A&E [ i.e Accident & Emergency] departments each year, on the basis of a recent sample of hospitals. “And we also see that especially these young people aged from 12 to 15 have the most accidents,” said the spokesperson Tom de Beus.

Now Amsterdam’s head of transport, Melanie van der Horst, has said “unorthodox measures” are needed and has announced that she will ban these heavy electric bikes from city parks, starting in the Vondelpark. Like the city of Enschede, which is also drawing up a city centre ban, she is acting on a stream of requests “begging me to ban the fatbikes”.

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[-] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 102 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

That was sadly exactly what I was expecting from the electric motorization of bicycles. It is a history that has repeated itself many times in the last 70 or 80 years since the first combustion engine mopeds.

The fact is that the human-powered bike is at a sweet spot of efficiency and safety. Once you go faster, you need a helmet, a heavier frame, wider tyres, better brakes, wider lanes, protective clothing, protection against cold, a heavier motor for propelling all the extra weight, and so on. The energy input from you the human dwindles.

It is not any more a bicycle.

[-] CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de 66 points 3 months ago

You need a helmet on purely muscle-powered bicycles, too. A helmet saved both mine and my father's life in accidents that would not had happened were we not riding bikes that moment.
A majority of bicycle accident fatalities could have been prevented with helmets.
Wear helmets. There are cool models, too, don't try that excuse.

[-] CovfefeKills@lemmy.world 19 points 3 months ago

Oh man I got a concussion while wearing a bike helmet I probably would have died if I wasnt wearing it. And we were just kids makings jumps in the driveway...

[-] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 18 points 3 months ago

Yes, right.

But: A bike helmet won't help you much if you have a collision at 50 km/h. If you go at moped / light motorcycle speed, you need a motorcycle helmet, too.

[-] CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Yeah, obviously you need different helmets for different speeds. But the comment I responded to was worded like you wouldn't need a helmet on bicycles at all.

[-] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

In principle, this is correct. But the need for a helmet increases massively with speed.

Consider the end speed of free fall when falling a certain height - or the inverse, height in meters versus speed in kilometer per hour. It is:

10 km/h   ..... 0.39 meter
20 km/h   ..... 1.57 meter
30 km/h   ..... 3.54 meter
40 km/h   ..... 6.29 meter
50 km/h   ..... 9.83 meter

Would you jump from ten meters height into a concrete surface? Few people would, because it is almost certain that you die. But the frame pillar of a car is equally hard as such a surface.

Another data point: In the center of Copenhagen, not so many people use a helmet, but the speed is typically between 10 and 15 km/h - so many bikes there ! - and the number of serious accidents is very low. The contrary is the case for Germany.

And just to make a point: Using a helmet is always safer.

[-] CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 3 months ago

So? Nobody is arguing about this but you. Again, my point is not about speeds or certain types of helmets. I just said you should wear a helmrt on bikes FFS!

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[-] Alloi@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

most ebikes already go slower, or on par at max speed with an amateur/relatively fit cyclist. roughly 25 to 30kmph.

going after fat tire bikes specifically doesnt really make sense considering they offer more traction for stopping power. if they legally limit the speed it should be on par with elite level cyclists at most. which is about 50 to 60kmph. depending on the area. nobody wants to wipe out and hurt themselves or somebody else.

this is a way for them to add tickets and licensing for people who wish to circumvent owning a vehicle or taking public transit. which the government and corporations directly benefit from financially.

i just dont see the point besides fear mongering in a place where virtuallly everyone has a bike, and cycling accidents are less lethal than vehicular ones. it just seems like an unfair represention of statistics to prop up a bottom line that only serves to extract wealth from the poor, less well off, environementally or financially concious.

if parents dont want their kids to take those risks, then dont buy them an ebike. buy them a regular one, or tell them to take public tranist if they cant offer it themselves.

they always use children as a way to shoe in control with fear tactics.

as an bike/ebike rider. i have a bike that can go about 45kmph and never go over 25 personally, as that feels like a safe speed in my city with the infrastructure and crossings that we have. every incident that has happened to me has come from vehicles doing illegal turns, crossings, or not looking where traffic is coming from before pulling out into the street.

if anything they should focus on getting more people to ride bikes/ebikes, and offering safety courses for those who wish to own ebikes. free of charge.

if they want to regulate them, regulate braking power vs speed potential. and helmets. and create separated concrete barrier bike lanes with covers for weather and wind to avoid ice buildup and snow. fat tire bikes are nearly a necessity for cyclists in colder climate.

[-] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 35 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

They are talking about banning fat “bikes” not fat tire bikes. They are basically electric motorcycles disguised as an e-bike.

Like this one:

There is already regulation and they should be speed limited. But these bikes are designed to unlock the limit very easily.

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[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 60 points 3 months ago

Who knew that reinventing the motorcycle for like the third time was going to have the exact same result.

[-] trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

It's not motorcycles, it's MiCrOmObiLiTy! - some tech bro cheating his way around road safety regulations.

[-] snoons@lemmy.ca 29 points 3 months ago

Yes, these bikes can be dangerous. I've seen, and almost be hit by people riding them top speed on a shared pathway.

[-] HowRu68@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago

I mean there are llke 14 accidents per day. And most people i know are regularly complaining how they almost got run over.

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 3 months ago

If it weighs the same as a moped / motorcycle, it should be on the road. Simple as that.

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[-] Zamboni_Driver@lemmy.ca 23 points 3 months ago

These are not fatbikes. Fatbikes are normal pedal bikes with big tires that are good in snow.

These are Fat Tire e-bikes. You should always be calling them ebikes when discussing them in English. Perhaps this is a mis translation.

[-] HowRu68@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago

It's in the first par. of the article.

" .. thick-tyred electric bikes.. the Dutch call “fatbikes”

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[-] tgcoldrockn@lemmy.world 22 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

human powered locomotion (foot, bike, skate, etc) and mobility assist devices, should be completely separate from motorized vehicles (electric bike, scooter, cars, combustion,etc). simple as.

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[-] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 3 months ago

Let's give motorcycles with insane torque to children, What could go wrong?

Most of those even don't need you to pedal (which where I live is a prerequisite for e-bikes).

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[-] Dayroom7485@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago

Throttle controlled electric bicycles have revolutionized individual mobility in Chinese major cities. They are low cost, low emission, and can be used by a wide demographic, for example, teenagers, who also want individual mobility.

By banning them “because they’re unsafe”, western governments are missing an opportunity to modernize the way in which people move around. Instead, they should figure out how to have people use these safely.

[-] trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works 47 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

There isn't much to figure out. Treat them as what they are: Small motorcycles, and as a consequence, require a license, insurance, mandate helmets, ban them from roadways reserved for non-motorised traffic, and enforce minimal technical standards.

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[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 34 points 3 months ago

I think they'd all be happy to classify them as electric motorbikes.

Requiring registration plates, training, a license, insurance, safety gear, and making them road only.

They don't belong on cycling or pedestrian infrastructure. They shouldn't be ridden by children.

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[-] qevlarr@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago

Bicycles already exist and Amsterdam is famously cycle friendly. But these things go way to fast for the kids riding them without helmets or insurance, zipping through unsuspecting tourists and getting into loads of accidents

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[-] JackBinimbul 14 points 3 months ago

Why are 12 year olds even allowed to drive what is essentially a motorbike?

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[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Throttle controlled ebikes should be banned. Pedal assist only. Article doesn't say which these are.

[-] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 22 points 3 months ago

Don't ban them, just make them register as electric motorcycles. Which is a market that could do with more choices..

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

Electric motorcycles are not allowed on bike paths and parks. Which means they have to go faster so they can be on roads. Throttle control ebikes are right in that grey area of motorized in pedestrian areas that we should not have.

[-] huppakee@piefed.social 9 points 3 months ago

I think a big part of the reason these sell so well is because you don't need a license (like other bikes) and also don't need a helmet. I totally agree these are more like mopeds, scooters and motorcycles; but the current regulations makes these bikes accessible to a group that has no access to the other types.

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[-] cooperpair@lemmy.zip 12 points 3 months ago

I hope that Eindhoven follows suit.

[-] HowRu68@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago

Hope all city centres.

[-] ian@feddit.uk 10 points 3 months ago

I think the laws where I am in Germany are stricter than the Netherlands. But it's always worth trying more granular rules. Such as age limit, helmets for kids, fines for increasing performance, speed limit or ban in parks. This is fairer, but much harder to police than an outright ban. But big enough fines should be a deterrent. And might be preferred by fat bikers.

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[-] Alpha71@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago

Make it so they have to be licensed, insured and are legal on the roads. But then allow for the bikes to have speed increases.

Basically a really cheap electric motorcycle.

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[-] Bob@feddit.org 9 points 3 months ago

Am I understanding this correctly, that they want to ban bicycles based on the width of their tires?

[-] eksb@programming.dev 46 points 3 months ago

"fatbike" means something different in The Netherlands than it means in North America.

In North America, fat bikes are mountain bikes with 4 inch wide or wider tires, generally designed for use on snow and sand. E.g.: https://surlybikes.com/products/wednesday-og-algae

In The Netherlands, fatbikes are throttle-controlled e-bikes with 4-5" wide tires with a smaller diameter than typical bikes. They come with pedals, but the gearing and seat position makes the pedals essentially useless; many people remove them. They do not handle well. They do not stop well. They are popular because they are cheap. E.g.: https://www.fatbikeskopen.nl/products/qm-wheels-v20-pro-mini-zwart

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[-] eigenspace@feddit.org 20 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Fatbikes in the Netherlands are a group of e-bike brands that purposefully make it extremely easy to remove their government required speed regulator, and are particularly popular among certain demographics of young immigrant men to use as basically electric motorcycles (since they can be controlled with a thumb-throttle instead of pedaling).

Because there's a mixture of these bikes causing real problems on the roads, and them being popular young brown dudes, a lot of different forces in the Netherlands are pretty upset about them and want them banned.

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this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2026
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