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Tories heading for landslide election defeat, says Britain’s top pollster (www.independent.co.uk)

submitted 1 year ago by i_am_not_a_robot@feddit.uk to c/uk_politics@feddit.uk

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Exclusive: Sunak could be presiding over ‘wake’ at conference, warns Prof John Curtice – with voters furious over NHS failures, cost of living, migrants and Liz Truss

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[-] _pete_@lemmy.world 45 points 1 year ago

Honestly their walk back of the net zero has made me never want to vote for them again.

The planet is fucked, at this point nothing else matters, we aren’t doing anything about it because Sunak is cosied up to fossil fuels and is too busy flying his private jet about.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 30 points 1 year ago

Honestly their walk back of the net zero has made me never want to vote for them again

not their killing off of poor and disabled people though, or their racism, or transphobia, or deliberate destruction for personal profit of all public infrastructure, or their lying, or cheating, or corruption or...

Maybe not the point you think you're making there champ.

[-] rwtwm@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago

Sigh
Way to win someone over to your cause. You had a sympathetic ear there and you wasted it.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They were never fucking sympathetic, that's the fucking point.
Fuck off with your tone policing, "enlightened" centrist clown.

[-] rwtwm@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Look, you can be right, you can stick it to everyone you want. It's your call. But I know enough lonely people who took every opportunity to jump down peoples throats.

[-] renlok@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago

And their decade of making the country worse for everyone but the ultra wealthy was ok?

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago

Not ok but it's what people knew they would do when they elected them, so them then doing it shouldn't really change people's opinion of them.

[-] echo64@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

To be fair, their walk back of net zero might of got them 500 extra old age pensioner votes, assuming that the oap's are able to survive the winter covids, heating costs, and cost of living costs. And they can't get past the polling stations needing extra ID.

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago

They did that because they believed their own rhetoric. They made up all sorts of nonsense about ULEZ, which successfully confused enough of voters that they won Boris Johnson's old seat when really they wouldn't have. But this made them think that people don't care about environmental policies. So they decided that it would be a great idea if they walked some back, because clearly that would get them some votes right?

[-] cupcakezealot 27 points 1 year ago

idk what the polls say it's going to be closer than everyone thinks because i know the british electorate.

[-] bappity@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

the polls are always big for labour then the election comes and Tories still somehow win >_>

[-] renlok@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago

It's because people still don't bother turning up to vote

[-] renlok@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago

Fingers crossed

[-] MrNesser@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Hoping the party fractures under the pressure.

The tories really conist of two parties at war with each other constantly. The only thing they agree on is money and power are good for them.

[-] echo64@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

It fractured a decade ago when they couldn't get a majority and had to get in bed with the popularists by promising a brexit referendum. Something 100% against tory values.

What you have now is not even a tory party. it's an unelected popularist assortment of fifth rank backbenchers who would have been insignificant in the grand scheme of the party.

The real question is what is going to happen to the tory party after they lose. Will they reform as an ultra nationalist fascist party like they have been heading towards? Will they go the gentle opinionless route Labour did and hope that's enough? Just die?🤞

[-] ReadyUser31@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Hopefully they collapse and Labour split into centrists and lefties. That would be ideal, drag the Overton window over a little.

[-] burningmatches@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago

Even Thatcher’s Tory party was fractured — between so-called wets and dries. It’s inevitable that any broad political party (which you get in a two-party system) will contain extremes.

[-] Borkingheck@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

If they lose, surely the pary splits between moderates and the nutters.

[-] echo64@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

That already happened. The moderates left a long long long time ago

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

Hoping the party fractures under the pressure.

One thing rich fucks are known for is banding together to protect their wealth, and the public fountain they get it from. I wouldn't get my hopes up.

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 4 points 1 year ago

I worry more about vote splitting, but both can be fixed by moving away from FPTP. Mixed Member Proportional Representation, like Germany and New Zealand, is what we need.

[-] MrNesser@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately we won't get proportional representation from a labour goverment.

Maybe if they are forced into a coalition with the lib dema we can get movement. The problem is labour really don't do coalitions which leaves the door open to a tory return if they get a low turnout.

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago

Thing is Labour party members want to get rid of FPTP. It's the party leadership that doesn't. Which is putting party before country.

[-] Lord_Logjam@feddit.uk 11 points 1 year ago

Maybe people are finally realising that the Tories can't legitimately blame the previous Labour government anymore, they've been using that move for too long now.

[-] i_am_not_a_robot@feddit.uk 4 points 1 year ago

They do that? I thought they always blamed the previous government, irrespective of which party was in charge. "Oh that lot back in 2019? No, that wasn't us" puts on false moustache and glasses "That previous government put us in all this mess" "Conservative government? You must mean Boris Johnson's government. Right mess they made of things. Fortunately we're nothing to do with them, so things can only get better, eh?"

[-] Lifebandit666@feddit.uk 9 points 1 year ago

I've posted this already but

It's starting early, the headlines that the Tories will be defeated so you go "Oh good, I don't have to vote" but you do, it's lies, VOTE!

[-] apotheotic@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

NO MATTER WHAT POLLS SAY - GO OUT AND VOTE

If you (and a bunch of others) get too comfy with Conservatives losing the election, and don't go out and vote, then that's how they getcha. If you want the tories out, vote them the fuck out. I beg you.

[-] i_am_not_a_robot@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago

I can't upvote this enough. Well said!

[-] Borkingheck@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Rishi is going full cultural war to win votes but actually focusing on things that will proper win votes and seems reasonable.

It is just incredibly frustrating seeing people come out of the wood works and run with this idea that there is a war on cars.

[-] sol_hsa@mastodon.online 5 points 1 year ago

@i_am_not_a_robot One should hope so

[-] spark947@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

Well damn, its about time.

[-] Blake@feddit.uk 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It doesn’t really matter, either way. If they lose, then labour win. And labour are almost as bad.

This incoming labour government is going to radicalise more people than anything else, I only hope it radicalises people with the correct conclusions.

[-] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 12 points 1 year ago

So, the first government I really remember was Blair's Labour. At the time, I was against a lot of what they did from a left and liberal POV. I won't go through the list because we all know it and I'm still against all of it!

Having now lived through a Tory government, I can categorically say that Labour are infinitely superior to the Conservatives in every respect. Labour would never have given us Brexit, as just one example. Under Labour we're going to get green investment, planning reform, investment in schools. It's going to get better and it's worth fighting for.

[-] frog@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

Agreed with this. Labour are far from perfect, but I'd still rather have them than the Tories. My ideal outcome from the next general election would be Labour falling short of a majority, though: this would force them to cooperate with another party, and ideally that other party would be the Lib Dems and/or Greens, who would push for electoral reform as a condition of cooperation. I don't think we're going to see any meaningful change in the country until we ditch FPTP, which puts too much power in the hands of a few swing voters in specific areas of the country, who are seen as necessary to win over while everyone else just gets thrown under a bus. And we're never going to get PR with a Labour majority government.

[-] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think you're right that a Labour majority wouldn't go for PR, but I also think PR is unlikely to solve many problems. It was FPTP that gave us the NHS after all!

But basically we need to get the Tories out and right now, the simplest way to do that is to get Labour in!

[-] frog@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

What PR would achieve in the long run is assure that future governments actually reflect what the people want. FPTP can't achieve that, because it allows situations where Tory governments get massive majorities based on only 30-35% of the vote, which results in them, amongst other things, dismantling the NHS, which at best only 30% of the country wants. All Labour majority governments achieve is undoing some of the damage, before getting voted out again.

So while I agree the highest priority right now is getting the Tories out, and I'll vote however I need to in order to make that happen (realistically, that'll actually be the Lib Dems for me - I'm in the south west), a Labour majority isn't a long-term solution. Labour would never get to stay in power forever. Under a proportional system, the fact that 60-80% of the votes are for progressive parties would actually be reflected in parliament, which will never be the case under FPTP, and would mean that parties like the Lib Dems and Greens (who are more committed to tackling climate change than Labour) would have a say proportional to the number of people that actually voted for them. Right now, the 10-15% that vote Lib Dem and 5-10% that vote Green, scattered all over the country as they are, are entirely ignored. So are everyone who doesn't live in a city or the red wall.

[-] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago

People often make this argument, that PR would somehow lock in left wing governance, but that simply hasn't been the experience in other countries that have adopted it. We'd get just as many Tory minorities, propped up by Lib Dem or whatever Ukip's called these days, as the other way around.

[-] frog@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

What we wouldn't get, though, are 80+ seat Tory majorities on 35% of the vote. There's also the fact that in countries with PR, right-wing governments are closer to the centre than they are in countries without it. Minority governments and coalitions have to compromise to get anything done, which leads to better, more balanced legislation more often, while taking into account a broader range of viewpoints which, crucially, represent the whole country and not just a segment of it.

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[-] Blake@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago

What we really need to do is get every single political party out. There isn’t a single one of them that is willing to do enough to stop climate change or to address inequality.

[-] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago

Okay, I'm not really sure what your theory of change is, here.

The only thing that will stop climate change is large scale international agreement. The chances of that happening are small, but they're better with Labour.

[-] Blake@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago

We need to change our perspectives. Electoral politics isn’t the most important thing for changing our society, it should be quite low on the list.

What we really need to do to change the world for the better is to substantially change the structure of society. We need to build an alternative structure to what exists - a series of workers co-ops, housing co-ops, social centres, industrial unions, and so on, and once we have such a structure in place we can withhold our labour and stop participating in the exploitative, destructive system that exists now. This would effectively lead to the collapse of the current system in a way that would minimise harm.

[-] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago

That's just a list of nice things.

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[-] echodot@feddit.uk 7 points 1 year ago

And labour are almost as bad.

The word "almost" is doing an extreme amount of heavy lifting in this ridiculous straw man of yours.

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago

The same pollster went on to prove that water is wet

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[-] K3zi4@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I have a £100 bet with a friend who says the same. I just have no confidence that the UK public won't just shit the bed and vote Tories again.

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this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2023

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