41
submitted 1 day ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/vegan@slrpnk.net
all 27 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 12 hours ago

Similar to how you won't convince people to consume less fossil fuels because of climate change (because people couldn't care less about some far-away problem like climate change), you won't convince people of eating less meat to reduce the suffering of the animals either.

For renewable energy, people started mass-adopting it because solar energy simply got cheaper than fossil fuels and people are greedy and try to minimize their own cost of energy, which drives them to solar power.

The same is also true for meat consumption. Saying that meat production emits lots of CO2 is not going to change mass behavior. You need to focus on the health impacts of eating meat on the individual instead.

Eating lots of meat (especially red and heavily processed meat) is known to have disadvantageous health effects on the human who eats it. Among other problems, it causes high blood pressure which are directly causing cardiovascular health problems. That's why people have a personal incentive for their own good to eat less meat.

[-] krooklochurm@lemmy.ca 5 points 20 hours ago

No it wouldnt.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 day ago

No meal is worth the life of an animal.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

I don't think that premise is true. I think most people who eat meat have at least a vague idea of how animals suffer to become food. Most probably don't know the specifics, and few will want to watch the videos showing conditions and procedures in factory farming, but it's not the knowledge that fosters empathy for animals. Humans are really good at disconnecting conflicting ideas becauseconflict makes us uncomfortable. They will say they prefer that animals suffer as little as possible to become food (or leather or sugar or pharmaceuticals, etc) but most humans won't change their behavior to match that stated preference.

It's the same way we feel about sweatshops or slave labor or child labor or the general exploitation of workers. The vast majority of humans don't want other humans to suffer, and most humans are at least aware that a child died to bring them that chocolate bar. That doesn't stop people from buying chocolate or fast fashion or bacon cheeseburgers.

[-] thisfro@slrpnk.net 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

A lot of people are really like

Oh no! Anyway...

I remember being that myself. I ignored the facts, it was easy to do so in an environment where everyone did that. It changed when my environment changed and I really thought about the animal industry and how I contributed to it. It also happened in a time where I had the privilege to take the time, think about it and make the necessary changes, also thanks to availability of products in supermarkets, as well as meals at university.

Addendum: Additionally, people are kind of gate-kept from the "truth" by capitalist interests, through a stronger disconnect between the product you buy and how it is produced, obscuring the origin, process and actual ingredients. Even if people know, how something is produced, it is easy to abstract the final product from it, not having to face you cognitive dissonance.

[-] veganpizza69@lemmy.vg 6 points 1 day ago

It’s the same way we feel about sweatshops or slave labor or child labor or the general exploitation of workers. The vast majority of humans don’t want other humans to suffer, and most humans are at least aware that a child died to bring them that chocolate bar. That doesn’t stop people from buying chocolate or fast fashion or bacon cheeseburgers.

No, it's not the same. Simple difference that even you can grasp:

injustice now a just alternative is possible
sweat shops sweat shops exists in many forms, humans paid terribly, if at all sweat shops can be abolished, workers can be paid well and work in safe environments, it's doable
animal harming industry the industry exists in many forms, at many scales and intensities no, there's no way to get animal 'products' in a just way, especially not within a system
[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Ok. Of course they aren't exactly the same. My point is that people are capable of compartmentalizing the suffering of others, regardless of species. But yeah, we don't eat the child slaves who sew our sneakers. Good catch.

[-] veganpizza69@lemmy.vg 1 points 17 hours ago

Your point was carnist apologetics.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[-] budget_biochemist@slrpnk.net 2 points 20 hours ago

But yeah, we don’t eat the child slaves who sew our sneakers. Good catch.

Don't give the capitalists any more ideas please.

[-] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

The suffering is seasoning.

[-] Jarix@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

I did enjoy hearing Kentucky Fried Cruelty the first time I heard it. Genuinely laughed out loud.

[-] LadyMeow 1 points 1 day ago
[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Most table sugar is not vegan because it is refined with bone char, although the end product (white sugar) does not contain any animal product. The ethics of consuming this sugar is debatable among vegans and vegetarians, because the bone char is considered a byproduct of the meat industry rather than a primary driver of animal suffering, and you're not consuming the bones.

Some vegans feel strongly about avoiding any products created with animals , others are OK with sugar.

I mentioned it because it is a good example of something seemingly innocuous that many people aren't yet aware is made is animal products. Even the people who are aware of it don't necessarily agree on how strict we should be. Plenty of alternatives exist, but sugar pops up in a lot of unexpected foods that you might otherwise assume are vegan.

[-] veganpizza69@lemmy.vg 5 points 1 day ago

This is incorrect, a common "gotcha" from carnists.

Sugar as a product is mainly of two types: (sugar)cane sugar and beet sugar. Beet sugar doesn't use bones during refining. The US also has an USDA Organic label for cane sugar which should be bone free.

For Americans: https://ordinaryvegan.net/nutrition/vegansugar/ and https://www.peta.org/faq/are-animal-ingredients-included-in-white-sugar/

And, yes, there are plant-based alternatives for cow bones in that process.

There are also other sugars, perhaps more heavy on the fructose side, from other plants. Famously for the US: corn syrup.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

It's not incorrect. Of course there are plant-based alternatives, but beet sugar is only like a third of white sugar, and activated charcoal sugar is an even smaller fraction.

[-] veganpizza69@lemmy.vg 1 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

You're providing no references, no context, no phrasing. Whoever gave you an upvote must've been high on something.

[-] wolfyvegan@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 day ago

Vegans are not okay with exploiting animals for the production of white sugar; by definition, vegans oppose the exploitation of animals.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Right, because every vegan is exactly the same.

[-] wolfyvegan@slrpnk.net 5 points 1 day ago

Vegans may disagree about a great many things, but when it comes to the topic of whether exploiting non-human animals is acceptable, I think that all vegans by definition are in unanimous agreement that it is not. Veganism is binary in that sense, at least in principle.

[-] LadyMeow 1 points 1 day ago

TIL it is a good example, I had no idea.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

Get out of here with your do nothing attitude!

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I'm not suggesting we do nothing. I'm saying we shouldn't expect information to drive action. If you want real change, you need to be political and you need to be proactive. Without regulations, we would still have children changing bowling pins 12 hours a day while smoking unfiltered cigarettes and drinking polluted water. If you want to reduce animal suffering, you need legislation to regulate factory farming. Any change would need to be gradual regardless, but any positive change is a reason to celebrate.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago

People are unaware of what’s happening to the animals stop being an animal abuser.

[-] thisfro@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 day ago

How do you conclude they are an animal abuser? As far as I can tell, they advocate against it.

this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2025
41 points (100.0% liked)

Vegan

1374 readers
44 users here now

A place for solarpunks working toward a world without speciesism


Rules

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS