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this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2025
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I don't think that premise is true. I think most people who eat meat have at least a vague idea of how animals suffer to become food. Most probably don't know the specifics, and few will want to watch the videos showing conditions and procedures in factory farming, but it's not the knowledge that fosters empathy for animals. Humans are really good at disconnecting conflicting ideas becauseconflict makes us uncomfortable. They will say they prefer that animals suffer as little as possible to become food (or leather or sugar or pharmaceuticals, etc) but most humans won't change their behavior to match that stated preference.
It's the same way we feel about sweatshops or slave labor or child labor or the general exploitation of workers. The vast majority of humans don't want other humans to suffer, and most humans are at least aware that a child died to bring them that chocolate bar. That doesn't stop people from buying chocolate or fast fashion or bacon cheeseburgers.
A lot of people are really like
I remember being that myself. I ignored the facts, it was easy to do so in an environment where everyone did that. It changed when my environment changed and I really thought about the animal industry and how I contributed to it. It also happened in a time where I had the privilege to take the time, think about it and make the necessary changes, also thanks to availability of products in supermarkets, as well as meals at university.
Addendum: Additionally, people are kind of gate-kept from the "truth" by capitalist interests, through a stronger disconnect between the product you buy and how it is produced, obscuring the origin, process and actual ingredients. Even if people know, how something is produced, it is easy to abstract the final product from it, not having to face you cognitive dissonance.
No, it's not the same. Simple difference that even you can grasp:
Ok. Of course they aren't exactly the same. My point is that people are capable of compartmentalizing the suffering of others, regardless of species. But yeah, we don't eat the child slaves who sew our sneakers. Good catch.
Don't give the capitalists any more ideas please.
Your point was carnist apologetics.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
The suffering is seasoning.
I did enjoy hearing Kentucky Fried Cruelty the first time I heard it. Genuinely laughed out loud.
Sugar?
Most table sugar is not vegan because it is refined with bone char, although the end product (white sugar) does not contain any animal product. The ethics of consuming this sugar is debatable among vegans and vegetarians, because the bone char is considered a byproduct of the meat industry rather than a primary driver of animal suffering, and you're not consuming the bones.
Some vegans feel strongly about avoiding any products created with animals , others are OK with sugar.
I mentioned it because it is a good example of something seemingly innocuous that many people aren't yet aware is made is animal products. Even the people who are aware of it don't necessarily agree on how strict we should be. Plenty of alternatives exist, but sugar pops up in a lot of unexpected foods that you might otherwise assume are vegan.
This is incorrect, a common "gotcha" from carnists.
Sugar as a product is mainly of two types: (sugar)cane sugar and beet sugar. Beet sugar doesn't use bones during refining. The US also has an USDA Organic label for cane sugar which should be bone free.
For Americans: https://ordinaryvegan.net/nutrition/vegansugar/ and https://www.peta.org/faq/are-animal-ingredients-included-in-white-sugar/
And, yes, there are plant-based alternatives for cow bones in that process.
There are also other sugars, perhaps more heavy on the fructose side, from other plants. Famously for the US: corn syrup.
It's not incorrect. Of course there are plant-based alternatives, but beet sugar is only like a third of white sugar, and activated charcoal sugar is an even smaller fraction.
Last I checked, cane sugar refined using bone char was a small minority of world sugar production. If you want to claim that "most" table sugar is not vegan, then you need to back that claim with some evidence. This is not a place to spread misinformation.
You're providing no references, no context, no phrasing. Whoever gave you an upvote must've been high on something.
Vegans are not okay with exploiting animals for the production of white sugar; by definition, vegans oppose the exploitation of animals.
Right, because every vegan is exactly the same.
Vegans may disagree about a great many things, but when it comes to the topic of whether exploiting non-human animals is acceptable, I think that all vegans by definition are in unanimous agreement that it is not. Veganism is binary in that sense, at least in principle.
TIL it is a good example, I had no idea.
Get out of here with your do nothing attitude!
I'm not suggesting we do nothing. I'm saying we shouldn't expect information to drive action. If you want real change, you need to be political and you need to be proactive. Without regulations, we would still have children changing bowling pins 12 hours a day while smoking unfiltered cigarettes and drinking polluted water. If you want to reduce animal suffering, you need legislation to regulate factory farming. Any change would need to be gradual regardless, but any positive change is a reason to celebrate.
You are free to disagree with the idea that ordinary people continue to participate in animal abuse purely out of ignorance, but veganism is an abolitionist movement, and this is not a place to promote regulation or gradual reduction of animal abuse. I will not remove your comments, but you can consider this your only warning.
People are unaware of what’s happening to the animals stop being an animal abuser.
How do you conclude they are an animal abuser? As far as I can tell, they advocate against it.
Huh?