How come one side apparently MUST remain nonviolent but not the other
Because of propaganda and state power. It’s not a symmetrical conflict.
It certainly isn't
They don't have to, but data shows over and over that non violent ones more often end to being more successful at regime change.
Benefits for the non violent:
We actually have more power than them, they only succeed if we get scared and think there's nothing we can do. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
I've seen many statements to that effect. I have not seen political science studies that support it though.
Because there is none. The state always preaches nonviolence to keep us passive and not a threat to the status quo. They want peaceful from us but subject the working class to violence with every action.
Not much history to support it either.
It's a little more nuanced.
Violent resistance tends to swap one regime for another.
Non-violent resistance tends to create more positive social change.
If the only goal is to get rid of Trump, either one can work. If the goal is to have a brighter future then a revolution with minimal violence is preferable.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2452292924000365
Solidarity movement in Poland was a peaceful protest and last to end of the communism there.
Color revolution (including orange revolution in Ukraine)
Euromaidan (it was peaceful, although the government wasn't).
Statistically peaceful protests succeed 53% of the violent ones succeed 26%
Note though it isn't just showing up one day and be done, it's about having a sustained protest with at least 3.5% of population involved.
Basically, if we start shooting, that will result in a military response, and the US military is really good at massacres.
"Give me liberty or give me 40 more years of wage slaving consumerism and hoping my demographic isn't next"
Not sure if you are aware but the military are already responding
Im aware. The Guard did in a few Republican-controlled places last time too. But what they did was stand around instead of massacring the crowds. And that's a good place to bem
There's an Adam Friedland Show episode where he pitches Richard Kind on a movie about the story of The First Jew to die in the Holocaust. And its just a guy complaining about how long he's been waiting to take a shower.
That's the energy a lot of these protests give.
The Germans didn't have any kind of huge protest movement. They executed people for doing things like holding a private dinner in honor of Einstein.
Big protests are a key part of how we avoid that situation.
The Germans didn’t have any kind of huge protest movement.
That's well before the Nazis had power
Just look how stupid the administration is sending troops to Portland because all of the "violence". If Portland was more violent then they could carry the narrative rather than people dressed up in costumes. People will remember the frogs and the absurdity of the situation.
Both should, one does. Don't sink to their level.
“When they go low we go high” got us Donald Trump
If your country doesn't sink to their level soon you won't have the right to protest them any longer
Some months ago I was giving a coworker shit for not doing much of anything. No protests. No volunteering. No donations. Just works his mid six figure job, plays video games, and dates his works-at-google girlfriend. He admitted maybe he could do more. I said I could nag him the next time a big protest happened. He said sure.
Well, I messaged him with a quote from that conversation. He was like "oh it's Saturday?" And then no further responses until I followed up a day later. He's not going to do anything.
The other guys from that group also don't do anything.
Something about rich white straight (-passing) men comfortably just keeping their heads down and not even doing a half assed minimum bothers me.
But I guess there's nothing to be done. I'll be doing my best.
Get a woman in the group to invite spouses and girlfriends. The men will mostly follow.
A handful will decide they like cybertrucks more than sex
Interesting idea. I know at least one of them is dating a Google employee who, from what I can tell, is rather "apolitical". I don't know about the others, though.
They are empty vessels/pressure release valves provided by the oligarchy to prevent organic protest from rising that would actually threaten their existence.
Yes.
Now get out there.
I'll be there tomorrow with the frog guys!
They typically lead to more political involvement
Only because people have started to become affected personally by government policies. Many of those who voted for Trump regret are also in No Kings protest.
I'll happily welcome anybody who flips because they recognize how awful Republican policy is. That's important if we are going to have a durable majority
The biggest win is getting more people involved and comfortable with protesting and non compliance. Today was the largest single day protest in American history and up 40% from No Kings I.
You can't go from zero to prolonged protests over night. Each event needs to build on the last with increased experience and new participation.
Protests like these are weaker than direct violent action. The government finds these easy to ignore since they give an exact time of how long it will last and know it won't really have any direct impact on them or their families lives since it's happening far away from them. The better thing is to DOX every member of government and ruin every part of their life, including every second they spend out of the house and ruining their time at home by causing havoc in front of it. Annoy them, threaten them, hurt them till they either resign or stop being pieces of shit.
I’m just happy people are gettin out of the house and communicating with eachother. Society needs that.
Fuck yeah they do, see you there comrades
"we're experts, we studied administrations where the government was comprised of people that gave at least 1/3 of a fuck what the population thought so naturally my opinion can be applied to an administration that gives absolutely no fucks whatsoever about the population."
They care enough that they're trying to talk it down. Having a big chunk of the population turn out to tell off a dictator is a key step in how they lose power
Dr. King's policy was that nonviolence would achieve the gains for black people in the United States. His major assumption was that if you are nonviolent, if you suffer, your opponent will see your suffering and will be moved to change his heart. That's very good. He only made one fallacious assumption: In order for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience. The United States has none.
Kwame Ture
Well when the news is telling you symbolic actions are effective, doesn't that mean the liberals have already accomplished their symbolic goals? I'm sure you are all quite satisfied with the results, but it has not stopped a single raid so far. You need to intimidate ICE, not "expose them as hypocrites". That is what the ONLY people who have stopped raids have done. But if you weren't willing to do it under Biden, why would you start now? I have zero confidence in these movements.
Symbolic actions lead to practical ones — My friend group has been canvassing for Yes on California Prop. 50. Making popular support visible gets more people on your side, so we are all taking a couple hours to attend the rallly.
Symbolic actions actively take up time and energy that could be devoted to material actions, particularly if they are as disorganized as this. That connection exists in your mind. There's nothing stopping you from skipping the rally and going in directly canvassing more. Also, referendums fall squarely within the democratic system which elevated the guy you're calling a dictator. It's time to remember Hitler got elected. Gerrymandering laws won't stop them throwing people into camps. This whole thought process is disjointed. These people are breaking the laws what you're voting on state constitutional referendums to change! Did you forget this is a federal system and they are breaking federal laws too?
It's truly comical that people talk about the No Kings Rally like it's going to decolonize the U.S. and then you look at their actual messaging and its Hillary Clinton-tier wine mom sloganeering from the DNC. You guys have gotten me reading Baudrillard again. That's how bad this is. I'm reading fucking Baudrillard. I don't even like Baudrillard dude.
I have to disagree here: symbolic actions are how you get people hooked on action. Big ones like this have a significant bandwagon effect. Its very much a good use of a couple hours
Well, I wish you luck during the next election when you all go around hoping marginalized communities forgot you did nothing but cheer yourselves on. Nobody in the hood forgot the things Kamala "Do Not Come" Harris said, here that is where the Haitians are.
This is a shocker to you I know, but the "I'm just a widdle guy who doesn't wanna hurt anybody 😭🥺" rally is not going to inspire anyone who had their family members kidnapped. Why do you love being a joke to the right wing and coddling them?
LoL
I'm doing something and getting others to join me, taking advantage of a public low-risk event to get others started down the same path. You're sitting around complaining.
Symbolic actions keep us passive, it keeps us from demanding better. Did the material conditions of black neighborhood get better with the symbolic action of adding an MLK Blvd 20+ years ago?
The white man will try to satisfy us with symbolic victories rather than economic equity and real justice.
Malcolm X.
Wasn't that long ago in the evolutionary timeline that humans diverged from sheep. For safety reasons we still want to be part of the biggest flock. Seeing huge numbers of people at protests stirs something in our DNA.
See you out there folks!
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