I'm jewish and i will never forgive them for what they have done. Such a huge stain on society and so little accountability.
You can't put the shit back in the horse
They might someday. We came around to Germany and Japan eventually. They just need to stop and ideally apologize and send the perpetrators ro prison then give it a few decades
I had a great uncle who was hostile at anyone who drove a Japanese car. More so if they were Japanese. He had seen a lot in the pacific and he never forgave Japan. So a few decades may be more like when all the ones affected are dead.
Apologize, disarm, reeducation, rebuild Gaza, reparations for a generation, land back.
Sadly, zero chance z*onists would let that happen
The only thing I've ever known about Israel has been sociopaths in tanks vs children throwing rocks.
The fact Israeli propaganda has EVER worked is wild and I don't think it's as much of a lost cause as this article seems to think.
The fact Israeli propaganda has EVER worked is wild and I don’t think it’s as much of a lost cause as this article seems to think.
Before the internet, practically 100% of people in Western society thought Israel was the good guys. Literally the only exceptions you would know about were Bernie Sanders and Noam Chomsky, and maybe one weird guy you knew who mostly wore T-shirts and often a heavy coat for some reason and didn't comb his hair. And to everyone else, it was a "peace process" where terrorists kept attacking Israel and they had to figure out what to do about it to make that stop. Read some Chomsky from that era if you want to know what it was like, and realize that up until about 2000, he was this wild traitor to America to almost everybody outside of specifically leftist political circles.
There are still some remnants of that old-world viewpoint today, in terms of people who grew up reading the New York Times and the Financial Times and whatnot and haven't ever really gotten out of the habit. I don't feel like the propaganda has ever had all that much of a chokehold outside of that grouping. The problem is that except for a couple of outliers, our current government is entirely staffed at the highest levels by those remnants.
It has taken 2 years of a live-streamed genocide for the MoistCr1TiKaLs of the world to put on their black tee shits and say maybe Israel are the bad guys here. The internet has actually changed things less that we would like to think.
People, in general, want to offload their critical thinking to a 3rd party because they're too busy trying to survive capitalism and that hasn't really changed, if anything it's gotten worse.
Maybe living under the Australian settler colonialist project made me more aware of Israels true face than most but it feels like the news media has always been fine with showing blatant Israeli crimes and then gaslighting the audience because the cognitive dissonance was the whole entire point.
the news media has always been fine with showing blatant Israeli crimes and then gaslighting the audience because the cognitive dissonance was the whole entire point.
Oh that part I will completely agree with. My point is that even as far back ago as the Iraq War, anyone who talked good sense about geopolitics would get wild applause from the studio audience. And of course likewise for Israel, I think. Inside the media landscape is a much different beast, it is artificial in there (and that is on purpose and unlikely to change for as long as it is corporate owned, which probably will be quite a while.)
they had the hide behind, calling people anti-semites for like 60+years shield on thier side. plus the holocaust gave them alot of clout to use, they had infinite good PR. plus shows like Ncis was pretty good israeli propaganda, aka ZIVA/israel
Ain't happening ever again. They're facing the end of their control over the Western world and it's shattering them. They're gonna get even more brutal and violent as they enter their extinction burst but once that no longer gets a favorable response, they'll either come to the table humbled or they'll completely collapse.
thats why they recently paid google like 40+ million to issue straight, israeli propaganda on the platform recently on YOUTUBE.
The biggest danger of an unstable isreal is the fact they have nuclear weapons.
cmon... this is a but hyperbolic.. israel has a few masters that prevent outright armageddon... a lil genocide is how the u.s. came to be, but nukes... thats a non starter
There is a pretty realistic nightmare scenario where the US withdraws support from Israel, its massively more powerful neighbors (notably Iran) start attacking it and giving it an absolute shellacking including tons of dead civilians in the streets and its territory crumbling day by day to an invasion, and then it decides to "defend" itself by starting to throw nukes around, because it's game over otherwise so why not.
I don't think even Netanyahu would attack someone with nuclear weapons simply as part of their ordinary murder geopolitics, but for an existential threat I think it's completely realistic, and I also think it's completely realistic that Israel without Western support would face an existential threat.
Also russia doesnt like israel that much, plus they are allies of IRAN. they may have excuse to control that area sooner or later.
**faster than expected™️
Of course they do. Time sanctifies all crimes. And the propaganda already works on a lot of the world currently.
they took over r/worldnews as soon the war broke out, it was a sudden change it dint take much actually.
Heads up, this author is weird.
Her feed is roughly 90% just generic pro-Palestinian stuff, which, sure, sounds fine, and then 10% of it is crazy shit:
I can't find the one where she was repeating Russian talking point dogwhistles about how NATO is trying to start World War 3, ~~or how Europe turning to clean energy is dooming them to economic ruin~~ (edit: I was wrong that was someone else), but ~~those were~~ (that was) in there somewhere too.
I have no idea why she's super gung ho about the intricate details of American politics and not as much about Australian politics (where she's from), either.
Anyway I can't really tell if it's malicious in some way, or if she just likes talking about American politics but isn't aware of any details about it beyond "Israel's the worst," but her viewpoint is often weird.
"She's weird because she criticises the Democrats"
"I cant see nuance because it looks like criticism to me"
Ah yes, the "nuance" of implying people are Russian agents because they criticised Democrats.
Okey dokey. You motivated me spend enough time to look up some of the other stuff Caitlin's been talking about.
And so on. She's Australian, but she's super invested in why the Democrats and specifically the Democrats are bad people, "Russiagate" is fake and anyone who believes it is stupid, stuff like that. She constantly talks about US elections even in some pretty fine details (Joe Scarborough? I am American and generally pay attention to this stuff and I have only a vague idea of who he is). I still can't find the one where she talks about how Europe turning to clean energy instead of good old Russian oil is a horrifying mistake they better turn back from. Maybe I mixed her up with someone else, but I'm pretty sure that's in her stuff somewhere too.
Anyway, that's why I think she might be a Russian agent. She might not be. This Palestine stuff she's been posting recently is the only time I've seen her make 100% sense, but I predict that at some point in the future it'll pivot back around to some kind of talking point that would be super convenient for Russian state power the more it got spread around in Western (and in particular American, for some reason) media as a genuine grassroots leftist view.
And so on.
OK? What exactly is your complaint here?
She’s Australian, but she’s super invested in why the Democrats and specifically the Democrats are bad people
Ok? And? State your actual point please; because it seems like you're just trying to make an implication that you know would sound like rank McCarthyism if you actually came out and said it.
stuff like that
What do you mean "stuff like that"? Those two claims seem to have nothing in common.
She constantly talks about US elections even in some pretty fine details
What. Is. Your. Point.
I still can’t find the one where she talks about how Europe turning to clean energy instead of good old Russian oil is a horrifying mistake they better turn back from.
But you're going to try and invoke it anyway to try and smear her.
she might be a Russian agent. She might not be.
Yes, that describes literally every human on Earth, thank you Senator McCarthy. Note that your reason for slandering her as a Russian agent is literally just that she has some opinions you disagree with and is a foreigner who knows about US elections (as if US elections aren't extremely fucking consequential for Australians, almost more so than domestic ones.) This is just vile attempts to smear someone who disagrees with you. The idea that it's acceptable to accuse people of being "Russian agents" because they hold views you don't like is pure xenophobic neoconservatism. You might as well accuse her of being paid by Hamas. Zionist do, all the time, and they have the same justifications as you.
This Palestine stuff she’s been posting recently is the only time I’ve seen her make 100% sense
Uhuh. So whether or not she a spooky foreign agent is dependent on whether you disagree with her. Are you sure she's not a Hamas agent?
but I predict that at some point in the future it’ll pivot back around
Oh, so you're condemning her based on things she hasn't even said yet
some kind of talking point
And zionists will accuse her of using Hamas 'talking points'. "Talking point" doesn't mean anything except "point I don't like".
would be super convenient for Russian state power the more it got spread around in Western
Imagine how fascist you would have to be to think the truth of a statement has anything to do with who it's "convenient" for.
Sounds like I touched a nerve.
Ok? And? State your actual point please; because it seems like you’re just trying to make an implication that you know would sound like rank McCarthyism if you actually came out and said it.
I am saying that this woman might be part of the absolute tsunami of Russian disinformation which they've been investing in, in order to confuse Western voters with quite a bit of good success. She also might not be, but she sure does have a heavy, heavy sprinkling of pro-Russian talking points in here. I listed some examples I think.
Most anti-war people I know of just don't like war in general. They don't want Russia bombing people, or Syria, or the US, or Israel, or Australia. They're consistent. And they generally don't all of a sudden want us to think that Russia definitely didn't poison all of those diplomats and you're stupid if you think they did for example.
What do you mean “stuff like that”? Those two claims seem to have nothing in common.
Sure they do, they're both coincidentally Russia-aligned points of view that there is not a lot of reason for someone who isn't American to get excited and super forceful about to the extent that she gets excited and forceful about them.
I've known a decent number of non-American people who are just against the American government in general (and with excellent reasons behind it). They very rarely take time to distinguish one and only one of the symmetrical and mostly aligned parts of the imperial machine, and single out that part for special condemnation. They don't care.
Just her believing or saying these things that to me seem out of place doesn't automatically mean she's malicious. Now that I looked over her blog more, I am a lot more convinced that she is actually Russia-aligned in some way. There's just a ton of stuff about Russia specifically, and literally every single time, the viewpoint is exactly what Russia state TV would want her to say. I've been reading her recently, when it's 90% Palestine and 10% Russia's-the-good-guys-btw, but her older stuff is way way more overt. But, anyway, you're not required to agree with me on that. The links are there, people can draw their own conclusions if they're motivated to look into it and read them.
Edit: Replaced double quotes with hyphens because that is critical I guess
I still can’t find the one where she talks about how Europe turning to clean energy instead of good old Russian oil is a horrifying mistake they better turn back from.
But you’re going to try and invoke it anyway to try and smear her.
Fair enough. I think I really was misremembering and it was from this blog that I got that one. I looked for a while on Caitlin's blog and couldn't find that particular point anywhere.
Imagine how fascist you would have to be to think the truth of a statement has anything to do with who it’s “convenient” for.
You keep telling me things are my argument, which are not my argument.
I don't really want to just keep indefinitely clarifying things to you, it seems likely to go on forever. Anyway, you asked some specific questions, so those are the answers. The back and forth bit I think I can leave aside; I already said pretty much everything I wanted to say, I think.
Edit: Holy God, I just went down a rabbit hole. She has literally been republished in Russian state media, and she apparently threatened to sue somebody who claimed she was Russian propaganda. There's a lot more, too. Other people have noticed that she's weird.
She's gotten more beside herself as the genocide proceeded with the genocidaires and their enablers firmly having the upper hand in most western nations with the possible exception of Spain. But she's spot on with this one, at least as far as people who don't simply eat what they're served from the media slop-trough are concerned.
Yeah, this article seems fine. Most of her articles seem fine. I'm just saying that "this very very pro-Palestinian person IS ACTUALLY AN ANTI-PALESTINIAN PERSON AND THEY ARE TERRIBLE ON PURPOSE AND FUCK YOU FOR THINKING DIFFERENT" is pretty suspicious to me however right she is with most of what she says.
How dare she criticise the sacred DNC, she must surely be a secret KGB agent. Also notice how you can never actually address her points honestly; you have to make up absurd fake quotes that she never said.
Bernie Sanders' blood feud with the DNC is inextricably linked to why I like him (and for that matter with why I think it's weird that Caitlin is so angry about him calling Gaza a genocide.)
Caitlin is so angry about him calling Gaza a genocide.
That's not what she's angry about, and you know it. So I'm going to write you off as being deliberately dishonest.
He called it a genocide, and she reacted by writing up a big dishonest article about why he is a massive piece of shit. I know she had various dishonest attacks on him and nitpicks about his statement, yes.
Here's what he said (and what he was trying to do to stop the US's complicity in it) before she decided he was a piece of shit for the "genocide" statement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miIT3Iz0qzA
again?
Pointing out, debunking, and spreading awareness about state- and company-sponsored astroturfing on Lemmy and elsewhere. This includes social media manipulation, propaganda, and disinformation campaigns, among others.
Propaganda and disinformation are a big problem on the internet, and the Fediverse is no exception.
What's the difference between misinformation and disinformation? The inadvertent spread of false information is misinformation. Disinformation is the intentional spread of falsehoods.
By equipping yourself with knowledge of current disinformation campaigns by state actors, corporations and their cheerleaders, you will be better able to identify, report and (hopefully) remove content matching known disinformation campaigns.
Same as instance rules, plus: