168
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Sounds like I touched a nerve.

Ok? And? State your actual point please; because it seems like you’re just trying to make an implication that you know would sound like rank McCarthyism if you actually came out and said it.

I am saying that this woman might be part of the absolute tsunami of Russian disinformation which they've been investing in, in order to confuse Western voters with quite a bit of good success. She also might not be, but she sure does have a heavy, heavy sprinkling of pro-Russian talking points in here. I listed some examples I think.

Most anti-war people I know of just don't like war in general. They don't want Russia bombing people, or Syria, or the US, or Israel, or Australia. They're consistent. And they generally don't all of a sudden want us to think that Russia definitely didn't poison all of those diplomats and you're stupid if you think they did for example.

What do you mean “stuff like that”? Those two claims seem to have nothing in common.

Sure they do, they're both coincidentally Russia-aligned points of view that there is not a lot of reason for someone who isn't American to get excited and super forceful about to the extent that she gets excited and forceful about them.

I've known a decent number of non-American people who are just against the American government in general (and with excellent reasons behind it). They very rarely take time to distinguish one and only one of the symmetrical and mostly aligned parts of the imperial machine, and single out that part for special condemnation. They don't care.

Just her believing or saying these things that to me seem out of place doesn't automatically mean she's malicious. Now that I looked over her blog more, I am a lot more convinced that she is actually Russia-aligned in some way. There's just a ton of stuff about Russia specifically, and literally every single time, the viewpoint is exactly what Russia state TV would want her to say. I've been reading her recently, when it's 90% Palestine and 10% Russia's-the-good-guys-btw, but her older stuff is way way more overt. But, anyway, you're not required to agree with me on that. The links are there, people can draw their own conclusions if they're motivated to look into it and read them.

Edit: Replaced double quotes with hyphens because that is critical I guess

I still can’t find the one where she talks about how Europe turning to clean energy instead of good old Russian oil is a horrifying mistake they better turn back from.

But you’re going to try and invoke it anyway to try and smear her.

Fair enough. I think I really was misremembering and it was from this blog that I got that one. I looked for a while on Caitlin's blog and couldn't find that particular point anywhere.

Imagine how fascist you would have to be to think the truth of a statement has anything to do with who it’s “convenient” for.

You keep telling me things are my argument, which are not my argument.

I don't really want to just keep indefinitely clarifying things to you, it seems likely to go on forever. Anyway, you asked some specific questions, so those are the answers. The back and forth bit I think I can leave aside; I already said pretty much everything I wanted to say, I think.

Edit: Holy God, I just went down a rabbit hole. She has literally been republished in Russian state media, and she apparently threatened to sue somebody who claimed she was Russian propaganda. There's a lot more, too. Other people have noticed that she's weird.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago

Sounds like I touched a nerve.

"U mad?"

I am saying that this woman might be part of the absolute tsunami of Russian disinformation which they’ve been investing in

Ok. So might you, so might anyone. This is just McCarthyism "Oh, I'm just saying that people who disagree with me might be Soviet Spies!"

Again, Zionists call her a Hamas agent. How are you any different?

in order to confuse Western voters with quite a bit of good success.

How fascist do you have to believe that the reason people disagree with you is that spooky perfidious foreigner have mind controlled them? This is literally just warmed over Judeo-bolshivik conspiracy theory. Yeah, nobody could ever genuine believe something different to you, they've just been "confused". Fortunately though, you're immune; you can't be effectuated by disinformation. You're special and penurious.

I listed some examples I think.

To call what you listed " a heavy, heavy sprinkling of pro-Russian talking points" is completely fucking absurd. She disagrees with you a bit, that's it. How is this any different from zionists saying she's a Hamas asset because she repeats "Hamas talking points"?

Most anti-war people I know of just don’t like war in general.

Oh, so they would have no problem with criticizing the Wests role in drawing out the war in Ukraine?

And they generally don’t all of a sudden want us to think that Russia definitely didn’t poison all of those diplomats and you’re stupid if you think they did for example.

So she's not rah-rah jingoistic and anti-Russia for you. Big deal. And you're not anti-Hamas enough. I guess you must be a Hamas agent.

both coincidentally Russia-aligned points of view

Oh fuck off. Points of view don't have a national identity. You know, all of your points of view on Gaza are "Hamas aligned points of view." I guess you're a Hamas agent?

not a lot of reason for someone who isn’t American to get excited and super forceful about to the extent that she gets excited and forceful about them.

What a bullshit argument, "non-Americans aren't allowed to have opinions on global politics!" You get pretty fucking forceful and excited about Ukraine.... I guess you must be a CIA agent. You also get pretty forceful about Palestine. Guess you must be a Hamas operative.

I’ve known a decent number of non-American people who are just against the American government in general (and with excellent reasons behind it). They very rarely take time to distinguish one and only one of the symmetrical and mostly aligned parts of the imperial machine, and single out that part for special condemnation. They don’t care.

What are you even trying to say? Once again sounds like you just don't like her opinions and are trying to smear her for unrelated reasons.

Just her believing or saying these things that to me seem out of place doesn’t automatically mean she’s malicious.

No, but you're going to endlessly insinuate it anyway.

Now that I looked over her blog more, I am a lot more convinced that she is actually Russia-aligned in some way. There’s just a ton of stuff about Russia specifically, and literally every single time, the viewpoint is exactly what Russia state TV would want her to say.

Now that I look at your post history, I am a lot more convinced that you are CIA related in some way. There's just a tone of stuff about Ukraine specifically, and literally every single time, the viewpoint is exactly what American state TV would want you to say.

Russia’s the good guys btw,

Making up quotes now are we? Well how do you explain you saying "I love the CIA" so often?

But, anyway, you’re not required to agree with me on that

Wow, how charitable of you, thank you so much Senator McCarthy.

The links are there, people can draw their own conclusions if they’re motivated to look into it and read them.

Lol, this is literally Qanon rhetoric. Or Zionist. How is this any different to zionists accusing her of being Hamas?

Fair enough.

So are you actually going to learn a lesson here?

looked for a while on Caitlin’s blog and couldn’t find that particular point anywhere.

Maybe you should have done that before you tried to use it to build up your McCarthyist cast against her.

You keep telling me things are my argument, which are not my argument.

They're the argument you made. Maybe they aren't the argument you intended to make, but they're the ones you made.

I don’t really want to just keep indefinitely clarifying things to you, it seems likely to go on forever.

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

― Jean-Paul Sartre

Anyway, you asked some specific questions, so those are the answers.

I notice you couldn't answer the one about how you're any different from Zionists who accuse her of being Hamas.

I already said pretty much everything I wanted to say, I think.

You sure did; you're a McCarthyist who thinks the only reason people might disagree with you is because they're part of a sinister foreign conspiracy to corrupt the West.

[-] pharceface@retrolemmy.com 2 points 2 days ago

Dude she's not going to fuck you. Get off the net and go outside.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I’ve known a decent number of non-American people who are just against the American government in general (and with excellent reasons behind it). They very rarely take time to distinguish one and only one of the symmetrical and mostly aligned parts of the imperial machine, and single out that part for special condemnation. They don’t care.

What are you even trying to say?

I feel like it was already pretty clear, but sure, I'll try again. I am trying to say that lots and lots of extremely hostile-to-Americans viewpoints are familiar to me and make sense. Actually, pre-Ukraine-war, I had some people I was very close to who were pretty pro-Putin specifically because he was sticking his thumb in the US's eye and they felt like that was great. But, as soon as he started bombing apartment buildings and kindergartens, they changed their mind because they aren't fucking weirdos and state-cheerleader monsters.

So I am trying to say that very rarely did any of those people get super excited about Hilary Clinton, Seth Rich, American partisan politics, particular pundits on cable news, all kinds of stuff like that. They just weren't interested. This lady has the most bizarre combination of election cheerleading like a CNN anchor, coupled with total disdain for the entire American foreign policy from top to bottom.

Never did it occur to me to accuse any of those people of being Russian propagandists, for reasons that should be obvious. This lady I'm a lot less sure of, for reasons that should be equally obvious but seem like they keep eluding you.

That's what I am trying to say.

There’s just a tone of stuff about Ukraine specifically, and literally every single time, the viewpoint is exactly what American state TV would want you to say.

That's actually not true. One of my common refrains is that the West is constantly betraying the Ukrainian people by giving intermittent and minimal aid and then putting extensive restrictions on what the Ukrainians are allowed to do with it, while they're fighting for their lives. There are a whole bunch of dead Ukranians because of them... which is a pretty common outcome for people who wind up depending on us for something urgent geopolitically when they have nothing (in our minds) to offer us in return.

Search my comment history for "a subtle racism" and I think that's one comment where you can find me talking about it.

Russia’s the good guys btw,

Making up quotes now are we? Well how do you explain you saying “I love the CIA” so often?

I mean she literally said very explicitly at one point that it seems like Russia is a much more benevolent force in the world than the US. I didn't bookmark it or anything but it is there, and it's very clear that she regards them in general as behaving reasonably in the war and the West as behaving unreasonably.

Her more recent articles have been more (edit: ~~"AOC / Bernie are the bad guys"~~) "Bernie Sanders is a Ghoulish Zionist / AOC is a Genocidal Con Artist" than anything about Russia, fair enough, I should have said that when I talked about the 10%.

I notice you couldn’t answer the one about how you’re any different from Zionists who accuse her of being Hamas.

Hamas doesn't really have an extensively documented history of paying Western media people large and small to publicize various false things they want to plant in public consciousness, and she's not saying anything that is wildly false about Palestine that would even get me thinking in that direction.

I'm not even sure what the equivalent would be for Hamas. Maybe if she was saying that October 7th never happened or Hamas wasn't involved (as she did to the election interference or the diplomat poisonings), then yes, I would wonder if she was somehow doing deliberate astroturf for Hamas. But they're not really analogous organizations or situations.

I'm aware that you're pretending that the only reason I am saying any of this is because she has a viewpoint I "don't agree with" or w/e. I feel like I've documented why I think it probably in a decent amount of detail at this point.

Anything else you want me to answer before we wrap this up? Don't get me wrong, you've been a peach, I just have to wash my cardboard box collection soon and I really don't want to keep putting it off.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

So I am trying to say that very rarely did any of those people get super excited about Hilary Clinton, Seth Rich, American partisan politics, particular pundits on cable news, all kinds of stuff like that. They just weren’t interested. This lady has the most bizarre combination of election cheerleading like a CNN anchor, coupled with total disdain for the entire American foreign policy from top to bottom.

So you're saying that she doesn't remind you of the people you personally know, so she must be an evil foreign agent. That checks out, you do indeed seem to be a jingoistic chauvinist.

This lady I’m a lot less sure of, for reasons that should be equally obvious but seem like they keep eluding you.

No, the reasons are very obvious: you don't like her arguments, so you're smearing her with McCarthyist ad-hominems.

That’s actually not true.

It's as true as you're claims about Johnstone.

One of my common refrains is that the West is constantly betraying the Ukrainian people by giving intermittent and minimal aid and then putting extensive restrictions on what the Ukrainians are allowed to do with it, while they’re fighting for their lives

Wow, Russian talking points. Clearly you work for the KGB. Now address that I said you are using Hamas talking points in your history, clearly meaning you are a Hamas agent.

I mean she literally said very explicitly at

Ok, so she didn't say "Russia’s the good guys". Once again you are just openly making up fake quotes to spread disinformation.

I didn’t bookmark it or anything but it is there,

Oh, you mean like that last thing you said you hadn't book marked that you claimed she said, and then it turned out she hadn't?

She regards them in general as behaving reasonably in the war and the West as behaving unreasonably

Oh, did she say that? Oh, no, of course not, you're just once again making up a false thing to claim about her that she never said. More disinformation from you, CIA agent.

“AOC / Bernie are the bad guys” than

Damn, you just cannot stop making up false quotes.

Well your post history is all "Ukraine and the DNC are perfect and beyond criticism, and all Russians should be killed," so clearly you're CIA

Hamas doesn’t really have an extensively documented history of paying Western media people large and small to publicize various false things they want to plant in public consciousness

Yes they do, according to their enemies. Are you saying that Hamas don't pay media people? By the way, what actually false things has she said? Because so far you haven't actually been able to list any claims of fact that you believe are false.

and she’s not saying anything that is wildly false about Palestine that would even get me thinking in that direction.

Uhuh. So you're just admixing that it comes down to whether you personally agree with it or not. If you don't agree with it: Talking Point, clearly a paid foreign agent. If you do agree with it: It's just true. Just literally asserting that you're right, and disagreement is treason.

I’m not even sure what the equivalent would be for Hamas.

Why not? You've already said what makes something a Russian talking point: Anything that Russia is also saying, or anything that would benefit Russia if it was true. So saying, for example, that Israel is doing a genocide is, by definition, a Hamas talking point.

But they’re not really analogous organizations or situations.

Yeah, because you agree with one and not the other. That's literally the only difference you've been able to articulate: "disagree with me? Foreign agent!"

I’m aware that you’re pretending that the only reason I am saying any of this is because she has a viewpoint I “don’t agree with” or w/e.

I'm not pretending anything; that's the position you've laid out, you literally have not laid out any reason for you claim other than that she says things you disagree with. You just don't like me wording it that way because you want to be able to keep indulging in McCarthyist conspiracy theory to dismiss people you disagree with.

I feel like I’ve documented why I think it probably in a decent amount of detail at this point.

Oh yeah, you've definitely documented a bunch of things you disagree with her one; granted, a lot of those were completely made up lies that she never said, but that only further shows that you call her a ruskie infiltrator because you disagree with her.

Anything else you want me to answer before we wrap this up

Yeah, what do you think the end result of even the American left descending into warmed over Judeo-Bolshivik conspiracy theory is? What do you think the political environment will be like now that "You criticized the politician I like! Clearly you're an evil Ruskie subversive!" becomes the norm across the entire political spectrum?

Oh, and why do you have so many Hamas talking points in your history? Are you a Hamas agent?

Don’t get me wrong, you’ve been a peach, I just have to wash my cardboard box collection soon and I really don’t want to keep putting it off.

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre

[-] PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 3 points 2 days ago

Got it. You just want to keep making the same point over and over again. I've tried to address it a few different times, and you're not into it. Okey dokey.

Final thoughts:

Ok, so she didn’t say “Russia’s the good guys”. Once again you are just openly making up fake quotes to spread disinformation.

“AOC / Bernie are the bad guys” than

Damn, you just cannot stop making up false quotes.

You got me lol. I went back and edited the quotes to hyphens, and replaced the AOC and Bernie thing with the exact words she said. Hopefully you are content now? Maybe not.

She regards them in general as behaving reasonably in the war and the West as behaving unreasonably

Oh, did she say that? Oh, no, of course not, you’re just once again making up a false thing to claim about her that she never said. More disinformation from you, CIA agent.

Heh. An example, from https://caityjohnstone.medium.com/the-reckless-brinkmanship-with-russia-just-keeps-on-escalating-73e514d99fe5

I wrote just the other day that Biden’s authorization for limited strikes on Russian territory with US weapons would immediately be followed by a push for even more escalations with strikes deeper into Russia, and here we are. Every time the warmongers get one escalation, they immediately start pushing for another.

There is a limit to how many escalations Russia will tolerate before taking drastic action against NATO to re-establish deterrence credibility, and nobody really knows exactly where that limit is. They seem bound and determined to find it however, and when they do we may already be on an irreversible free fall toward nuclear armageddon.

There's also stuff like this, where she has this whole revisionist history where Russia has every right to start slaughtering members of some random sovereign nation nearby to it as long as it makes sure to tell people in advance (which, of course, they didn't, but that's a separate issue), but Ukraine is trying to start World War 3 at the behest of Western powers if they fight back.

As we discussed last year, the terrifying thing about the west’s pattern of continually escalating against Russia every time it doesn’t get a nuclear ICBM in the kisser for the last escalation naturally incentivizes Russia to attack NATO directly in order to re-establish its credibility for deterrence. So far Russia has been content to respond to NATO’s escalations by just tearing into Ukraine with greater and greater ferocity, but if the western empire keeps interpreting every time Russia doesn’t attack NATO forces directly as a sign that it’s safe to keep escalating, at some point Russia’s going to have to hit NATO.

Ukraine doesn't "have to" destroy refineries or military aircraft inside Russia, simply because their apartment buildings and fruit markets with their corresponding people inside keep blowing up. That's "escalation." But Russia might "have to" start World War 3 if people don't take seriously their God given right to keep blowing up fruit markets.

You know, the anti-war perspective.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago

Got it. You just want to keep making the same point over and over again. I’ve tried to address it a few different times, and you’re not into it. Okey dokey.

Glass houses mate; all you've done is continuously restate your argument that the fact she holds views you don't agree with is evidence she's actually an agent of the great Russian conspire to infiltrate and subvert our righteous Western society.

I went back and edited the quotes to hyphens, and replaced the AOC and Bernie thing with the exact words she said.

Yeah, and now it doesn't actually back up your point.

Hopefully you are content now? Maybe not.

Are you going to finally stop making up quotes?

Heh. An example, from

So she didn't say that; once again your argument relies on outright making up disinformation about her.

Russia has every right to start slaughtering members of some random sovereign nation nearby to it as long as it makes sure to tell people in advance

So no, you're not going to stop making up things she never said. So no, I'm not content; stop spreading disinformation.

Ukraine doesn’t “have to” destroy refineries or military aircraft inside Russia, simply because their apartment buildings and fruit markets with their corresponding people inside keep blowing up. That’s “escalation.” But Russia might “have to” start World War 3 if people don’t take seriously their God given right to keep blowing up fruit markets. You know, the anti-war perspective.

At no point was this discussion ever about whether her opinions are correct or not, and yet here you are, arguing at length about them. Which makes sense, because to you, there's no difference between being wrong and being a Russian agent, you fundamentally don't believe people can honestly disagree with you, even if they're wrong. You are a McCarthyist, plain and simple.

[-] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Brain is a well known ragebaiter in the feddiverse

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Oh hey, you're back to stalking me around. Have you not gotten enough bans for it yet? You've been doing it for over six months now.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 2 points 2 days ago

So I see lol

IDK why I got taken in by it, I like to think I'm usually pretty good at disengaging but for some reason he got me

[-] Doomsider@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

You were being completely reasonable and brain in in the gutter was just trolling.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

You people really cannot accept the idea of people disagreeing with you. How are they being reasonable when they are repeatedly making up lies out of whole cloth? What exactly have I said that makes me "trolling", but them "completely reasonable"? Oh right, nothing, you just already agree with them and have convinced yourself that trolling is when anybody tells you you're wrong.

[-] Doomsider@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

You have simply become infamous.

[-] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Brain really just comes to rage bait, their comments and modlog say as much. Their active time seems to mostly be around office hours Moscow, but that could be a coincidence.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

Nah, it's just one guy who's been following me around since I said Kamala Harris isn't better on Gaza six months ago

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago

Because you know I'm right, lol

this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2025
168 points (100.0% liked)

Fediverse vs Disinformation

1731 readers
98 users here now

Pointing out, debunking, and spreading awareness about state- and company-sponsored astroturfing on Lemmy and elsewhere. This includes social media manipulation, propaganda, and disinformation campaigns, among others.

Propaganda and disinformation are a big problem on the internet, and the Fediverse is no exception.

What's the difference between misinformation and disinformation? The inadvertent spread of false information is misinformation. Disinformation is the intentional spread of falsehoods.

By equipping yourself with knowledge of current disinformation campaigns by state actors, corporations and their cheerleaders, you will be better able to identify, report and (hopefully) remove content matching known disinformation campaigns.


Community rules

Same as instance rules, plus:

  1. No disinformation
  2. Posts must be relevant to the topic of astroturfing, propaganda and/or disinformation

Related websites


Matrix chat links

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS