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You mean that when US starts blocking visa and cutting science budget, scientists look for another place?
I mean… it’s not exactly an upgrade.
I don't know. China is smart enough to realize that a country needs science and scientists should be enabled to do science. There will be censorship in some areas, but there's not a government that's just hostile to science in general and trying to shut it down because of some idiotically regressive dogma, as in the USA. Going to a country that considers it a good thing, and worth investing in, to lead the world in science would be an upgrade.
That's right. It's an upgrade by virtue of supplying the material means to do large amounts of science. To provide the education people need, give them labs, tools and materials to work with. All of us would benefit from those scientific discoveries.
Do they get to bypass the "great firewall"?
I don't think that's necessarily the case, but either way the firewall isn't impregnable if you put your mind to it.
How do you get through the American firewall that blocks American access to sites the government doesn't like?
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Some areas lol. China is the same thing as the US. All government is the same it does not matter where you are, they always turn against their people.
I'm very anti authoritarian and anti statist but this doesn't always happen. You can't look at say Burkina Faso with Thomas Sankara at it's head and Nazi Germany and say they're the same in how the government treated the people
There will be censorship in some areas, but there’s not a government that’s just hostile to science in general and trying to shut it down because of some idiotically regressive dogma, as in the USA.
You are actually stupid if you think scientists will have more freedom in China than the US.
I suppose it really depends on what freedoms you consider important and how much you weigh things. It is true, in china, you cant be openly critical of the regime. FWIW, that is increasingly true in the US.
However, in china, you are free to not be killed by violence. You are free to get affordable healthcare. You are free to get affordable high quality food. You are free to get affordable housing (outside of Beijing and a few other financial centers). You are free to get an affordable high quality education. I dunno. There are tradeoffs. The US is increasingly offering less and less by way of substantive freedoms and is becoming more and more authoritarian.
Also, have you actually been to china? How much of what you know about china is based in outdated information from 30 years ago or might just be straight up propaganda? I have been in the last 10 years and it blew my mind and changed a lot about how viewed the country.
The scientists clearly disagree, and they'd definitely know better than you would
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Kinda is. America is on its way to being as authoritarian as China, just with a Christian bent, which is so much worse.
So much worse than being jailed for talking about democracy? At least in the United States we can all run to a blue state… For now. However, I am curious to see if Trump does anything with his super special banned words.
Not really.
China doesn't protect freedom of speech. They don't even allow citizens to own their houses.
America doesn't protect freedom of speech already, and we're not even a full year into our fascist takeover
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In terms of getting to do science without harassment, it absolutely is. Now I wouldn't go myself because I'm basically allergic to authoritarianism, but if I was another "I just wanna make rockets" guy it'd be a pretty tempting offer.
Ummm… In China, prohibited or heavily restricted areas of research include democracy, human rights, Tibet, Xinjiang, Taiwan, Tiananmen, criticism of the Communist Party, censorship circumvention tools, human reproductive cloning, genetic modification of human embryos for reproduction, stem cell work beyond 14 days of embryo development, unapproved clinical stem cell applications, organ transplantation outside regulated systems, unauthorized cryptography, dual-use or national-security technologies, nuclear technology, unrestricted sharing of genomic or health data, foreign collaboration on sensitive datasets, and archaeological or historical research that challenges official state narratives.
Have you ever read the list of words you can’t use when applying for grants in the US? Here’s the list: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2025/03/15/these-197-terms-may-trigger-reviews-of-your-nih-nsf-grant-proposals/
Imagine not being able to make research just because it focuses in the wrong topics according to the current government, topics like females, the climate crisis, mental health, racism and inequality.
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You are actually stupid if you think scientists will have more freedom in China than the US.
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Errrr, you can't pay me enough to work in China. Why go from an county starting to go towards authoritarianism to a country that is ALREADY authoritarianism. China is def not the lesser of the two evils.
China's authoritarianism is more palatable for the people who live in it because they don't deport people to random 3rd world countries' terrorist prisons. If you're valued, they make your life exceptional. But this all comes with the looming threat of "speak out against us and you'll go to jail without trial". So basically you live under fear in both China and the US, but in China you know what to do to avoid being a target and in the US it can be pretty random
Honestly, if they offered me a million euro per year salary, I'd go and be quiet as a lamb. But I don't think they want me in the first place and also they probably know my opinion of the country.
In China they also imprison the wealthy that exploit people. I may not agree with how China treats their citizens but they have some things right.
only if threatens the politburo that is, just like JACK MA was getting to big and they made up charges to get rid of him.
No they don't. They only do that if you become too powerful. Nobody can be more than Xi Ping. If you are then you get punished..
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There is a literal concentration camp for theUyghurs because of their religion. They are sending jets and navy ships to sovereign nations all over south east Asia. Even building man made island to build bases to do so. There is a social points system that is designed to punish the poor and middle class.
You're watching too much TikTok bro. China is brainwashing you.
Lol I have never installed the TikTok app even. I can show you a screenshot from the App Store if you don't believe me.
They are sending jets and navy ships to sovereign nations all over south east Asia.
Definitely an issue regionally (and globally because TSMC), but a non-issue to anyone living in China (unless they have family at one of those countries)
Even building man made island to build bases to do so
I agreed, it's bullshit bad faith diplomacy.
There is a social points system that is designed to punish the poor and middle class.
Same as the credit score system in the US then. It's provincial, anyway, not a centralized system. A lot of people in China are saying it doesn't affect their lives too much. Many haven't heard of it.
There is a literal concentration camp for theUyghurs because of their religion.
So this is the worst of them all. But then nearly every single article about it is written by, or cites, Adrian Zenz, a notoriously anti-China reporter. The multi-million person concentration camps might be a myth. There's definitely some human rights abuses going on there though, even the UN has reported on that. But again, this doesn't affect most people.
We're talking about over a billion people in one country. 99.9% of them aren't going to be affected by any of this. Can you say the same regarding the systemic racism, the ICE raids, etc, in the US? And those are accelerating, China seems to be keeping their authoritarianism stable.
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This is relevant for immigrants who are trying to escape poverty, almost with no future in their own countries either for their personal or professional aspirations. I am not a China fan, but when you look at countries around the world, many of which are very poor and underdeveloped but with lots of brilliant, hard-working people with dreams and potential, they would rather go to a place where they have at least some stability, predicted living and working conditions, and a future, rather than to a place where one doesn't know whether the potential future mayor of New York City, born and brought up in the USA and hence of course a citizen who happens to be the son of a world-famous filmmaker and a well-known academic, will actually be deported or not. I mean that's a real possibility at this point - let that sink in. (I am not even going for more extreme examples)
I wish things were better, and I wish we didn't live in a world where China, yes, China – of all the countries, might become a viable alternative for people from the developing or underdeveloped world compared to the USA.
The dude is brainwashed by TikTok. As a person who's family has a factory in china, it's a terrible place to live.
The number of times I have used TikTok in my life is the integer just below 1.
(And now I am getting a sense of what that "other kind" of echo chamber these platforms are becoming as opposed to that kind of echo chamber Twitter etc are)
I mean the damn thing is banned here.
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Like. I get it. China is absolutely an authoritarian state. But it also isn't coming apart at the fucking seams, really seems to have its shit together, and offers a very good quality of life if you make enough money, from what I've heard.
It isn't a glittering wonderland or anything but you're not going to be deported for no fucking reason if you're an expert in your field (unless you get on the wrong side of the government).
The USA is coming apart at the seams. It isn't just authoritarianism, it's ineptitude and implosion. They're totally different situations.
They absolutely are less evil than the US and by a wide margin
Is it really gaining on someone if the other racer ahead of you stops turns around and runs back toward you going the wrong way? I mean I guess that's gaining but it doesn't feel like the right word.
There are always isolated exceptions, but the idea to move from the US to China because the US is becoming more and more autocratic is baseless. China has been a dictatorship for decades, and it doesn't get better because the US getting worse.
The list of researchers and others professionals leaving the US for Canada, Australia, Europe, and other democratic states is much longer. This article doesn't make sense.
As an addition, a report citing a Chinese state-controlled media:
Chinese professionals eye Europe as US visa uncertainty grows
According to the South China Morning Post, recent uncertainty over the U.S. H-1B visa program has led many Chinese professionals to consider leaving the United States for Europe. Confusion followed a U.S. government proposal to introduce a US$100,000 application fee for H-1B visas. Although later clarified to apply only to new visas, the announcement triggered panic among skilled workers and their families.
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