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[-] fubo@lemmy.world 187 points 2 years ago

A Google spokesperson told Motherboard in a statement at the time of the unionization that it had “no objection to these Cognizant workers electing to form a union,” but that it would not bargain with them. “We are not a joint employer as we simply do not control their employment terms or working conditions—this matter is between the workers and their employer, Cognizant,” the spokesperson said.

NLRB seems to disagree. This will be an interesting case, I suspect ...

[-] plz1@lemmy.world 182 points 2 years ago

So Google, like Amazon, is trying to play the "they work for a subcontractor that only supports us, so it's their fault, not ours" card. I really want to see the NLRB smack this pattern down hard and set an example for all the other companies to try to avoid unionization by way of not directly hiring people.

[-] CheezyWeezle@lemmy.world 81 points 2 years ago

NLRB changed their criteria for what is considered co-employment last month, widely broadening the definitions used to determine this status. Essentially, if a company has significant control (not just exclusive control) over any of a worker's employment status or conditions, then they are considered a co-employer now. It used to be that a company needed exclusive or overriding control over another company's employees to be considered a co-employer.

I'm certain we are going to see more lawsuits and legal challenges from employees because of this. I'm pretty certain there already are lawsuits from some other Google contractors over this exact thing; they are providing a case that Google is their co-employer due to the control they have over every aspect of their work.

[-] plz1@lemmy.world 29 points 2 years ago

That's excellent news, especially for the employees of Amazon subcontractors handling warehouse and delivery operations.

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[-] gibmiser@lemmy.world 72 points 2 years ago

Megacorps can get fucked. Pay your employees well or deal with the consequences.

[-] nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info 22 points 2 years ago

I want to, but I can't shake off the feeling that Google does have a point here: it's like requiring Amazon to bargain with DHL's drivers. It's kind of not their issue: they pay DHL for their services and DHL commissions their employees to do particular tasks.

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[-] negativeyoda@lemmy.world 128 points 2 years ago

I'm very much pro-union, but meanwhile artists and creators who made that content in the first place are getting fucked by everyone

[-] ivanafterall@kbin.social 80 points 2 years ago

A YouTube creators' strike isn't an impossible notion. It'd just have to be led by a couple of big names, like a Mr. Beast type.

[-] 3laws@lemmy.world 51 points 2 years ago

Mr Beast is the result of the trendy gen Z libertarian millionaire pipeline. He will never unionize nor support strikes.

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 26 points 2 years ago

There's been enough creators that have had enough problems with YouTube that maybe something could happen. I'm not putting money on it or anything but it wouldn't be that crazy.

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 30 points 2 years ago

Artists, techies, and socialists need to come together. To build a platform focused on sustainability ultimately. Devoid of profit for the sake of profit. And more focused on meeting the needs of their members. No overpriced CEO or board of directors. Or layers of redundant management. Once the service costs are covered. Anything after that could be split somewhat proportionally within strict limits.

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[-] ilex@lemmy.world 113 points 2 years ago

The article became increasingly redundant as it continued. The crux seems to be Google isn't their employer. These workers work for a subcontractor, Cognizant. Cognizant performs services for YouTube Music.

Cognizant is refusing to bargain citing the ongoing relevant litigation* between its employees and Google.

  • I'm not sure what the legal process is called for union claims.

Some of the employees are striking for 1 day.

[-] hobovision@lemm.ee 72 points 2 years ago

It's redundant because there's basically a circular argument that G and C are using to not respond to the workers. Workers want to C negotiate with G on the terms of their work with G but C says they can't because they're just contracting with G. Then G says the workers can't negotiate with G because they work for C. Both companies point the finger at the other as to why they can't help and just give nothing back to the workers.

[-] newDayRocks@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago

The article is confusing but it sounds like the union wants both C and G at the table, but C and G both agree that C should be the employer and G doesn't need to join the talks. So C is saying, if you really want G to join, you'll have to wait until the appeals are finished.

I'm guessing the union doesn't want to negotiate with C, have C go to G with the terms and G refuse and just causing endless delays in a game of telephone bargaining.

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[-] Aurix@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago

One idea of subcontractors is to split and delegate societal responsibility to others to appear to be clean. Surely the law is focused on Cognizant here, but the responsibility lies fully on Google, including their ability to intervene.

[-] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 104 points 2 years ago

What’s to stop every single corporation from leveraging third party contractor companies just to escape union bargaining? Cognizant seems like a company that basically exists for this reason. Both Amazon and Google play this game and it’s infuriating.

[-] muddybulldog@mylemmy.win 69 points 2 years ago

Nothing. It’s one of the alluring aspects of using third-parties. You pay a flat fee, people do work. You avoid all the overhead of HR, benefits, workers compensation and unemployment insurance. If you want someone gone there’s no process, you simply tell the third party that Joe doesn’t need to come back to work, ever, and you’re done.

Amazon and Google are not alone in this practice, nor is it exclusive to Fortune 500 companies.

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[-] jackalope@lemmy.ml 37 points 2 years ago

That's basically the current situation.

[-] Franzia 20 points 2 years ago

Dark Brandon and the NLRB are on that shit. No more malarkey.

[-] ToucheGoodSir@lemy.lol 24 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Hopefully people turn out in 2024 and stop us going down the 1930s Germany route..... my mother recently moved to Pennsylvania from a deep red state, and was saying that due to Bidens "corruption", she didnt think she would vote in 2024. Upon further questioning, my hyper conservative fundemantalist Christian uncle had been sending her news.

Hope my arguments convinced her otherwise, she detests Trump & the Republicans. Her vote DOES matter now. Have her set up with a variety of news websites & Firefox/ublock origin etc, and not "Townhall" garbage.

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[-] prole@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 years ago

This is what laws and regulations are for. If we had a functioning government...

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[-] kinther@lemmy.world 88 points 2 years ago
[-] ManosTheHandsOfFate@lemmy.world 64 points 2 years ago

I'll use it as long as they keep it bundled with YouTube Premium. The day they unbundle I'm out.

[-] Sendbeer@lemm.ee 37 points 2 years ago

Yeah, if you do a fair amount of YouTube and want to support the creators without queuing up a bunch of ads it's a pretty good deal.

[-] Nath@aussie.zone 53 points 2 years ago

$10 a month to have basically every song ever and never have to worry about YouTube ads. Yes, I use it.

[-] ramirezmike@programming.dev 37 points 2 years ago

hah, this was me with Grooveshark.

and then I lost everything when it shut down.

and then me again with Google play music. "upload your music, we'll keep it for you"

and then I lost everything when it shut down.

"oh it's ok, you can just use [new service], it's better anyway"

it just isn't the same, you lose stuff everytime. I don't think it's worth it.

[-] trk@aussie.zone 29 points 2 years ago

and then me again with Google play music. "upload your music, we'll keep it for you"

and then I lost everything when it shut down.

There was a long period where you could transfer your GPM uploads to YTM.

It worked perfectly for me - all my previously uploaded music is in my Library under "Uploads".

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[-] trk@aussie.zone 32 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

YouTube Music is a much better option than Spotify, in my opinion.

On top of the music you get ad-free YouTube.

I also upload any music I buy via Bandcamp or physical CD so I can listen to it anywhere. No one else offers that as far as I know.

Just make sure you use the unofficial YouTube Music desktop app (http://ytmdesktop.app/) if you're on a PC because using it in a browser sucks.

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[-] ShortFuse@lemmy.world 26 points 2 years ago

6 family members for $15 a month and no YouTube ads. Also that money was basically paid for by Google Rewards. The Web App is good too. I don't have to deal with CEF/Electron or any install really.

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[-] WarlordSdocy@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago

I don't use YouTube Music but I love using YouTube for my music. Tons of songs on there that just aren't on either YouTube music or other services like Spotify.

[-] Xey@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 years ago

You can listen to just the music that's on YouTube via YouTube music. That's one of the main reasons why I'm using YouTube music.

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[-] CrayonRosary@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago

Yes, and it's great!

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[-] WillardHerman@lemmy.world 67 points 2 years ago

Time to stop using Gmail and YouTube. I had already avoided go░gle search for months now.

Over the last three or four months I had deleted all my FaceBook, Twitter, Reddit, Instagram accounts. And this made me want to avoid go░gle search.

[-] 601error@lemmy.ca 19 points 2 years ago

Been using DuckDuckGo for a month or two. It's mostly good enough for me.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

DuckDuckGo is fine for some things, but if you want to do a search with a specific phrase in quotes, it doesn't recognize it. I hate having to go back to Google for some searches, but sometimes it's just better. I wish it wasn't, but it is.

DuckDuckGo's image search also leaves a lot to be desired.

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[-] legion@lemmy.world 66 points 2 years ago

YouTube Music is the enshitttified version of Google Play Music.

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[-] jackalope@lemmy.ml 61 points 2 years ago

/c/unions is worth subbing to.

[-] VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

What instance it on? I found two. So, for others,

!unions@lemmy.ml

!unions@sh.itjust.works

(for kbin users)

@unions@lemmy.ml

@unions@sh.itjust.works

(if it's on a different instance, I'll edit this comment.)

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[-] moriarty@lemm.ee 50 points 2 years ago

A Cognizant spokesperson told Motherboard in an email, “We have received the Alphabet Workers Union’s request for a Cognizant bargaining representative. The request put forward was for both Cognizant and Google to bargain. While we respect our associates’ rights to unionize, we firmly believe Cognizant is the sole employer of our associates. While the joint employer ruling remains unresolved, we cannot bargain at this time.”

“Google refuses to just admit that they are our employer, and then Cognizant is just using Google's legal appeals as a scapegoat,” Marschner said. “That, honestly, is exactly why we filed for joint employer status in the first place. We knew that if we just tried to engage in collective bargaining with Cognizant, that's exactly what they would do.”

wut

[-] return2ozma@lemmy.world 46 points 2 years ago

Everybody's striking! LFG!

[-] Shadywack@lemmy.world 38 points 2 years ago

I get the technicality of all this, but this could be a watershed moment. Businesses like to contract people out to move liability and cut corners in their obligations to the workers. The bottom line is that its cheaper and easier to fire whatever contractors you don't like for any reason, and artificially push their salaries/wages down.

Look at Fedex Ground, Amazon drivers, etc. Google is now firmly in the role of the bad guy here, with Sundar Pichai making 220+ million dollars with much of it on the backs of layoffs and ethnically bankrupt business practices. I honestly think the ramifications of this in a positive way for the workers is tantamount to the formation of the UAW itself with their sitting strikes. They sat at the machines and forcibly halted production.

That needs to happen here, and all you scabs, fuck you. You can just piss off.

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 37 points 2 years ago

Google: ~~Don't be evil.~~ PROFIT UBER ALLES!!!

[-] MargotRobbie@lemm.ee 35 points 2 years ago

I just want to see more strikes. 🙂

[-] greavous@lemmy.world 34 points 2 years ago

I can't believe I'm saying it but but I'm with Google here. They are sub-cons so negotiation would surely go through their employer who is cognizant. I'm a sub-contractor, I'm not gonna go to the client and ask for a raise, I'm gonna go to my employer. Maybe it's different in different regions but if I asked the client for a raise in the uk they would probably just laugh at me.

[-] noxy@yiffit.net 15 points 2 years ago

According to the union, Cognizant has also refused to bargain, citing Google’s appeals as the reason for its delay.

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[-] expatriado@lemmy.world 23 points 2 years ago

could they put bring the dislike count back on the demands? and make so video posters can't delete comments, so we can call bullshit when needed? that would be nice

[-] BigDaddySlim@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago

No they have bigger priorities, like retroactively demonitizing and removing videos that used to be just fine under the new ruse of "making everything more kid friendly" when we all know it's to make it more advertiser friendly

[-] BrudderAaron@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

If only there were an app... suited for kids that google could use... One that would give them the limitations and safety they want from people and not ruin the whole site while still chasing those kid viewers.

If only such a thing existed.

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this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2023
1589 points (100.0% liked)

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