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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by slaacaa@lemmy.world to c/lemmybewholesome@lemmy.world

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[-] Doomsider@lemmy.world 9 points 2 hours ago

In English it is usually stated as I feel lonely or sad. Most English speakers take this for granted. They don't think people are sad, but that they are feeling sad.

I like to use acting like when talking about negative behaviors to not define the person as a negative emotion. You are acting like a douche for instance as opposed to you are a douche.

[-] coronach@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 hours ago

That's a good technique. I'm gonna steal that.

[-] DiskCrasher@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

If you're bipolar you definitely are your emotions.

[-] jlow@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 4 hours ago

So depression is on me as well?

[-] musubibreakfast@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Like tar, if we peel it off your skin will come off too.

[-] modus@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

Yeah, man. You just gotta take it off like a coat. No big deal.

[-] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 10 points 8 hours ago

This is a combination of how the Celtic languages do possessive sentences and the very common European metaphor for "having" a feeling

Basically Irish (among with many other languages) don't have a word for have, instead they use the phrasing "X is at Y", where X is the thing being had and Y is the haver. This ties in with the metaphor of "having" a feeling, which can be seen in the English "I have a desire to..." or the German "Ich habe Hunger"

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 23 points 13 hours ago

Fundamental misunderstanding of English.

"I am sad" -- am here is a copula. It indicates a link between the subject (I) and subject-complement (sad). In this case, it's saying "subject (I) has property (sad)." It does not equate the subject and subject-complement.

Not all languages work like this. In Mandarin for instance, 我是伤心* (wǒ (I) shì (am) shāngxīn (sad)*) would be seen as grammatically incorrect or at least weird. This would literally mean "I am sad" (adjectives in Mandarin operate as stative verbs, so the correct way to say this is without a copula -- i.e. 我很伤心 (wǒ (I) hěn (~quite/~very) shāngxīn (sad)). (You could drop the 很 (quite), and just say 我伤心, but the connotation in this case is that you're setting up for a juxtaposition, e.g. "I'm sad, you're not sad."))

[-] calcopiritus@lemmy.world 1 points 32 minutes ago

As a Spanish native I was very surprised when I learnt that "soy" and "estoy" both are translated as "I am" in English.

You can either be something because it is something inherent to your being "I am a happy person" or be something at this moment "I am happy". Both are expressed by the same verb, but mean very different things. In Spanish it would be "Soy una persona feliz" and "Estoy feliz".

[-] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Unless those differences have different words, this is more a linguist difference than a difference of feelings created by it inside people.

[-] subarctictundra@lemmy.world 5 points 4 hours ago

That's true. 'I am tall' ≠ "I am height"

[-] Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 hours ago

I will say, as someone who lived through chronic pain for years, saying I have pain, rather than saying I'm in pain feels quite distinct and... Less hopeless? You're not incorrect, you're just not recognizing the impact and power words can have. There are whole therapies that specialize in reshaping our narratives, despite "I am sad" and "I feel sad" essentially meaning the same thing grammatically.

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 hours ago

If it helps you to view language this way, then I think that's great. But you should also recognize that yours is not a universal understanding of what's connoted by this grammatical structure.

I really sympathize with chronic pain, as I also suffer chronic pain. But for me, I don't think changing the words I use would really help me.

[-] Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 hour ago

And that's completely ok if it doesn't help you, I don't mean to invalidate your own experience. I was using a personal anecdote to show how language can influence thought, though there are better examples- like the Australian Aboriginal tribal languages that lack words for "left" and "right" and refer to everything relative to cardinal directions. As a result, they have impeccable senses of direction.

Or another example, linguistic relativity in colours (ie. Languages without a word for a colour like pink might have trouble distinguishing pink from red).

And if reframing words wasn't helpful for some people, there wouldn't be Narrative Therapy centres still running.

[-] faythofdragons@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 hours ago

But you should also recognize that yours is not a universal understanding of what’s connoted by this grammatical structure.

What does this even mean?

Are you really telling a person with chronic pain that they don't understand their coping mechanisms? That they shouldn't do it because you don't like it?

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

No, I'm not saying that. I think I clearly indicated that I approve of your coping mechanism with the my first sentence, "I think that's great." I meant that genuinely.

I'm saying I don't think your coping mechanism reflects a deep linguistic truth.

That's okay, it doesn't need to be linguistically precise to help with pain. If it works as a coping mechanism for you, it might work for others. But because I don't think it reflects a deep linguistic truth, I don't think this coping mechanism is likely to be widely useful for everyone with chronic pain, and I don't think this is likely to be helpful for many non-chronic-pain-havers to better understand chronic pain. Or perhaps it might help some people understand better, but if one's not clear that this is a coping mechanism that helps psychologically, and instead presented as linguistic fact, I think it will actually be on net harmful to the credibility of people with chronic pain.

[-] faythofdragons@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 hours ago

Okay, so I guess part of where we differ is that I completely reject the idea of 'linguistic truth'. To me, there is no one singular way to communicate that is 'correct', all behavior is a form of communication and language is descriptive and not prescriptive. It's inherently subjective and not objective.

I also do the reframing to help with my mental health problems, and don't think about it as linguistic fact, I'm just looking for different words to describe the same feeling, but choosing my words based on connotation. It's almost super-linguistic, in that it's about the meta understanding and not the dictionary definition.

instead presented as linguistic fact, I think it will actually be on net harmful to the credibility of people with chronic pain.

There is no such thing as a 'linguistic fact', what meta meaning words have will change based on geographical location.

[-] prole 3 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

"In pain", to me implies that it's happening right now, where as "having pain" is a long term thing.

[-] Timecircleline@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 hours ago

Fair! To me it meant something that I was carrying with me, and made it feel more transient.

[-] prole 1 points 3 hours ago

Ah interesting.

[-] CapillaryUpgrade@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 10 hours ago

Fundamental understanding of communication.

This post is communicating that we are not our emotions, and that they are a state that passes. it's just using language as a metaphor.

I'm sorry for being cheeky, i couldn't resist. But thank you for the explanation, i did not know that. Is it the same thing when i say "this is my best friend" but i obviously don't mean i own them?

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

yes, the posessive in english indicates many things, and one possibility is ownership. It can also indicate a link or relationship that is not ownership -- as a child I never thought I owned "my father."

Just bugs me when people look at one meaning of a word or grammatical construction and then assume that's the only meaning.

I agree that we are not our emotions, and I think that's a useful idea to conveny. But I think OOP's take on English grammar is gravely misinformed. Imagine if she had a similar take about a language she didn't know well; she'd be rightly criticized by native speakers.

[-] justanotheruser4@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago

You are grammatically right. But in practice the fact that am has also the meaning of equating the subject to the object puts the idea in people's head (at some degree, unconsciously, at least) that they equate to what they feel.

[-] chunes@lemmy.world 14 points 16 hours ago

This is one of those things where it's not that deep.

[-] snek_boi@lemmy.ml 13 points 16 hours ago

This is quite romantic, and I agree that we should be aware of our emotions as temporary, as clouds in the sky. However, the Irish language has not prevented the Irish people from having some of the highest rates of anxiety on Earth https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/anxiety-disorders-prevalence

[-] tabarnaski@sh.itjust.works 82 points 1 day ago

"I am sad" doesn't at all mean that sadness is my defining characteristic. It usually means sadness is a temporary state.

Non-linguists trying themselves at linguistics always often come up with pseudo facts like this.

[-] prole 1 points 3 hours ago

Language does shape how we think, so it's possible that saying it that way has a subconscious effect. I guess.

[-] oxideseven@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago

Without a doubt.

Language and how we specifically say things are huge. It's why we are big pushing to redefine a host of things now.

We are meant to use "I feel" statements instead of indirectly blaming others with you statements. Using more specific pronouns to avoid little harms that can build up. To say more specific and less derogatory things like unhoused or inclusive things like people of color. It all adds up.

This won't be the solution or the cure for depression but every little bit helps. If you have depression and are stuck, the making a small differentiation that you FEEL sad instead of BEING sad can be just enough to get you in gear for that day at least. That can be huge.

[-] dontfearthereaper123@ani.social 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

I doubt it. I'm not depressed because I use the language "I am sad/depressed/" its uncontrollable environmental factors. I imagine its similar for anyone with lasting similar conditions like anxiety etc

[-] prole 2 points 3 hours ago

I’m not depressed because I use the language “I am sad/depressed/”

I didn't really say that though did I.

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[-] Lojcs@piefed.social 11 points 17 hours ago

Does "This car is fast" mean the car is the abstract concept of having higher velocity? Does it mean the car is permanently moving fast or it has not and will not stop?

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 4 points 13 hours ago

yes it means that.

[-] swiftywizard@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 12 hours ago

absolutely.

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 28 points 23 hours ago

Languages are fun. French switches between "I have" and "I am" for these sorts of things. Spanish mostly uses "I am" but it has two versions of "I am", one that's used generally for more permanent states of things, one that's used for more temporary states. As a result, "I'm scared but I'm brave" uses one for the temporary condition of being scared, but one for the more permanent condition of being brave.

Japanese has its own whole system that is so different from English that it's hard to directly translate. In japanese "wa" marks the topic of a sentence, and can often be omitted if it's obvious. So you could just say "cold" or "brave" if it's obvious you're talking about yourself, or you can say "Watashi wa" which sort-of translates as "regarding me" or "about me". The particle "wa" is something used in Japanese to mark the topic of a sentence. Japanese doesn't have verb-person agreement, so there's no "I am", "you are", "he is". There's instead something vaguely like "regarding me: is" If you wanted to tell someone they were brave you'd change the topic of the sentence to them and say "Anata wa yūkan'na".

Japanese also uses the same word for "scary" and "scared" so you need contextual clues or other words to differentiate between "I am scared" vs. "I am scary". There's a different Japanese particle "ga" that is similar but has a narrower focus. Instead of the whole sentence being about something, it's just the previous word. So, I'm hungry becomes "my stomach is empty" but more literally: "specifically regarding stomach: empty".

None of this really makes any logical sense. Languages are weird, and the things that are the most commonly said are the weirdest. What does "I am hungry" really mean, that I am the very definition of hunger? That whole condition changes when you eat a sandwich? What does "I have fear" mean? I have it in a basket? Does "I feel fear" mean that I can sense its texture with my fingers? In English we mostly "are" things like hunger or fear. But, for some reason it's "I have a feeling" Now it's like the other European languages where feelings are something you have, not something you are.

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 2 points 13 hours ago

Personally, I wouldn't use "regarding" for "ga" as you did. I think that's more for "wa."

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 1 points 12 hours ago

Yeah, I don't know of a better way of indicating "ga", if you do let me know and I'll update it.

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[-] cronenthal@discuss.tchncs.de 50 points 1 day ago

We need an "iam14andthisisdeep" on Lemmy.

[-] slaacaa@lemmy.world 14 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

I’m unfortunately closer to “iam40andthisisdeep”

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this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2025

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