Well, this reminds me of a joke:
Russia invades Ukraine.
Every country: World War 3?!
German: No, it is not World War 3.
Israel attacks Iran.
Every country: World War 3?!
German: No, it is not World War 3.
Someone: How can you be so sure?
punchline
German: Because we haven't entered it yet.
"Peacekeeping troops". 😅
I think it's pretty obvious at this point that Russia is pouring the entire future of its nation-state into keeping Eastern Ukraine and Crimea, so, I think it's probably inevitable at this point given how little international support Ukraine has by now.
Why wouldn't you need troops to stand at that border and make sure that Russia can't just regroup and invade again in 6 years? Wouldn't you call that 'Peacekeeping'?
I thought they were making fun of the idea of sending peacekeepers to break up a rabid animal attacking something. Like what's next: negotiating with wild fires? Russia is going to take stabs at their neighbors, you need to send in bullies that will slap them down and keep them in check.
I didn't think to imagine someone backing up Russia. You know, considering it's Russia.
We've always been at war with Eurasia.
They're being deployed to defend a sovereign nation from invasion, I don't know what else you would consider "peacekeeping"
"3 day special operation". 😅
Very telling that it's a Latin saying, lol. I wanna make peace with the living, not the dead!
well the russians view themselves as the third roman empire. putin is on justinian's mad quest to reclaim his empire's ancient capital. putin wants to be czar, but one of the aspects of being czar going back to ~800 years ago is holding the home of the Kievan Rus: Kyiv. just as the romans would not stop their outward expansion until confronted with the force to stop them, neither will the russians.
NATO has basically been on the same path since its conception (check the Nazis that ended up in NATO high command!), but of course, two wrongs don't make a right.
Who has NATO invaded?
Serbia but that was a good thing
Yugoslavia
While technically true, would you put that on the same level as Russia invading Ukraine?
Kinda. Both are imperialist actions. Both try to jpstify their imperialism with "defending" someone.
Did NATO not bomb Yugoslavia to stop an ethnic cleansing? The bombing campaign lasted 2.5 months, and as far as I'm aware, Yugoslavia was not occupied during or after this time.
Russia, on the other hand, is attacking and invading Ukraine (again), occupying and looting parts of the country, targeting and murdering civilians. The current "special operation" has gone on for almost 3 years, with no end in sight.
I find it hard to believe that anyone could find those two scenarios comparable.
Russia claims that it's stopping a genocide. Not claiming that they are correct. just that in every invasion in the history of the world the agressor had a justification ready of defending themselves or some weak ally.
I don't see how the length of a war has anything to do with the justifications of the invasion. Russia didn't have the military force to reach their goals against Ukraine which received aide from the west. Yugoslavia was in a significantly worse position against NATO without any allies that could help them significantly. How does that justify the invasion of NATO?
You asked for a comparable scenario and received an answer. Now you're trying to no-true-schotsman yourself out of your premise. Just stop.
Russia claims that it's stopping a genocide. Not claiming that they are correct.
It matters if one claim is true and the other isn't though, kinda important. Also, russia is stealing territory and have constantly given different bs reasons for what they are doing. NATO saw a genocide, halted it and left. These are not comparable at all.
Not if you're trying to understand why nation states are doing things and you're not incredibly naive.
Not really, I'm just still waiting for a comparable example.
Ok, moving the goalposts, then.
No, the whole point of this conversation, and my original comment, was to point out that Russia and NATO are not even in the same league as far as imperialistic tendencies. NATO has intervened to actually protect civilians. Russia just claims to be doing that while in reality murdering innocent men, women, and children by the thousands.
Your point of this conversation is to make a moralistic argument of how evil Russia is. Moralistic arguments don't really work when you're trying to understand politics.
I agree that Russia is committing atrocities. You failed to give a reason why this is happening, other than "they are evil".
sounds to me like we should lend aid to the indigenous people fighting to protect themselves from imperial expansionism. just like in Palestine and Africa
You're right, but I feel like it's a bit more complicated than "NATO good, Russia bad", geopolitically speaking.
and you will note i have not said that.
The point isn't to make dead people. The point is to be a target too dangerous for a potential enemy to want to attack. It's to keep people alive, because if an enemy were to look at you they'd see you're ready to fight them and decide not to; at least, that's the idea. Some enemies are too stupid or careless that they'd do it anyway.
Yeah, another great latin phrase…
Because if it’s Latin there must be meaning beyond meaning.
I wonder whether you read the linked article. Cause, wouldn’t you be embarrassed to use it then? A phrase from the late, late Roman empire, that the terrific idea obviously didn’t prevent from falling, largely in use in humanistic imperial societies, even manufacturing guns referencing the phrase, doesn’t make you pause?
Sure, lets throw all our weapons away and tell Putin to pretty please don't invade us... again. /s
I use the phrase because it I find it relevant in times like this, and yes I read the article, I actually first thought that it was Patton who coined the phrase "If you want peace, prepare for war", so that's why I linked the wiki.
of course you’d find it relevant, because you’ve been reading it over and over
Yeah we kinda need an actual ceasefire before enforcing any kinda of peacekeeping operation. Also this isn't two waring African nation, if a German peacekeeping force engages with the Russian army that should probably trigger a NATO response.
But not Palestine I bet. Thanks for showing us who you are, Germany.
Yeah, ironic that Germany seems to be siding with fascists again
E: seems like Zionist brigade is at it on Lemmy, not surprising
bruh braindead comment
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