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The Pennsylvania Democrat recalled his time serving as a Hillary Clinton surrogate in 2016, even after he supported Bernie Sanders in the primary.

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[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago

Progressives that said "Joe Biden was a pile of shit" before he was elected have been like "he's shit, but maybe not as shit as I thought"

Before the circular firing squad starts up its probably good to recognize that Joe Biden is shit and the electoral college is shit and this bullshit will continue until we get real election reforms.

[-] techwooded@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 years ago

I'm still soured by how the primary shook out in 2020. Before any votes were cast, all everyone said about all the candidates were that anyone could beat Trump. Bernie won the first 3 races, and the Democratic establishment fought anyway they could to kill the movement, including pressuring flailing campaigns to back out. Biden finally won and the only message is for the left wing of the party to get in line. Kind of a hard pill to swallow when the Democrats claimed to be the party of the youth, but the youth voted 80%+ for Bernie in the primary. Ended up voting Green in 2020. Will I do so again in '24? Who knows, but at this point it isn't looking good. I don't like that the right wing of the Democrats (center-right overall) expects the left to follow along no matter what they do.

I'm not sure I buy this whole "third party votes are wasted votes" or "third party votes are a vote for the opposition". The US system heavily heavily biases towards having a two party system, but third parties exist, and just because Democrats and Republicans are the two major parties right now, doesn't mean they will be in the future. The Whigs were one of the two major parties for 25 years of US history, even winning the Presidency a few times, but now they're not. It took people not willing to accept the party line and jumping ship to change that, which again the system biases against, but it still happened. Democrats aren't the end-all-be-all of lefty politics. The next left wing party won't be the end-all-be-all either. Democrats have no incentive to change the current system. By continuing to vote for them, whether you believe it or not, you're approving and perpetuating the behavior. It isn't a useful method of change to say "I don't agree with anything the Democrats say, but that's the world we're in". That's how you end up in a situation where 70% of the country supports universal healthcare, but only 5-6 members of Congress do. Voting for a further left party than the Democrats will cause the Democrats to wise up to what their traditional base wants.

Politics in Democracy is not a passive system. Passivity leads to what we have now, two parties that write the rules for the states and the governments that represent the interests of almost no one, but have convinced us that they're the only and best options. There are agents of the Democrats currently in jail for breaking election law in their efforts to keep the Greens off the ballot. I'm sure the same is true for Republicans. Don't tell them its okay by giving them your vote. Don't give in to the political version of the Paradox of Thrift.

[-] HWK_290@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago

LOL all that and you're still voting Green party? You know, the ones that got us trump in 2016 and are Russian schills ? Get lost bro

[-] rothaine@lemm.ee 11 points 2 years ago

Voting for a further left party than the Democrats will cause the Democrats to wise up to what their traditional base wants.

Maybe after like a decade, after losing a few presidencies in a row.

But we don't have time for that. The Republicans plan to effectively end democracy if they win the House.

First Past the Post is the unfortunate reality, and yes it's fucking us hard.

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[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

ITT: people who defend Manchin every single time he votes against his party expecting perfect lockstep from those he keeps betraying.

Edit: I summoned one.

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[-] ristoril_zip@lemmy.zip 11 points 2 years ago

They're easy to understand: they are privileged and insulated enough from potential Republican fuckery that if Democrats lose elections, they are mostly going to be ok. They're mostly middle class or higher with secure employment or other economic support (parents, spouse), straight (or closeted), their religious status isn't contentious, mostly they're male.

The other group I'd expect would be extremely low information voters who believe all politicians are the same and it's a Coke or Pepsi kind of thing. That's not going to be super common with anyone identifying as "progressive" due to the very politicized nature of that term, though.

[-] snipgan@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I already lost Roe v Wade cause "progressives" cutting off their nose in spite.

Even if Hilary lost, that was no excuse to let Republicans take over the senate or elsewhere. Which they did.

Even back in my more "libertarian" days I still voted for Hilary cause what I knew could happen. And it did happen.

Edit: Turns out Bernie/Progressive voters really did come out a lot for Hilary, which lead to the popular vote wins. I was wrong. Sorry.

[-] stu@lemmy.pit.ninja 14 points 2 years ago

Yeah, except Bernie's supporters voted for Hillary at higher rates than Hillary folks voted for Obama, so maybe Hillary, her dumb fucking insecure email server, her lack of personality, and the DNC who helped her cheat her way through primary debates are the real ones to blame, not the progressives. She was a terrible candidate who the right hated and independents didn't like much better and she proved she was a terrible candidate by losing to the worst Republican candidate in the last hundred years. She had all the help she should've needed from progressives.

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this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2023
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