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[-] Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 42 points 6 days ago

Allegations of sexual crimes should always be taken seriously and addressed immediately, however, that's not the same as taking the words of the victims words as the truth. A due process has to be mandatory and proof must remain a non negotiable requirement to arrest and punish someone. That's the one and only way justice can be served.

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[-] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 83 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

While in theory this is a good idea, I have first-hand experience with people grouping together and accusing me of doing things with another (at the time) underage individual, trying to get me kicked out of school/smear my name/see me imprisoned/etc...

The issue? The other underage individual they said I was doing things with, was female. Me, I'm gay as fuck. Which was made pretty obvious during questioning. Also upon examination with the other individual being tested and questioned separately... Suprise, they found that, indeed, both testing and questioning showed the accused activities were completely unfounded. All parties that made these false claims admitted that they were falsified shortly thereafter. I could have sued them, and their families (since they too were underage) - this could have actually ruined my life, these things should be punished, these traumas compensated - but I decided against it, just wanting the situation to go away. It was an awful experience, and I still have trust issues; one of the accusers was friends with me. At least, so I thought.

Now, that's not to say 'oh they are lying' in this case, but you can't just blanket believe either side. You need facts, proof, evidence. Imagine if I were to make these claims about you - suddenly you are interested in evidence and due process.

(I won't be replying to any replies to this comment - don't want to tear open that scar any more than I already have writing this)

[-] DrSoap@lemmy.world 29 points 6 days ago

You're situation, while tragic, has nothing to do with his. He has been found guilty of assault in court. He has paid hush money and come to settlements. He has had his due process and now is sitting in the highest seat possible and no one is safe.

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While I feel sorry for your experience, rape can ruin a life just as much and happens more often (and unpunished) than false accusations. They actually took you serious and made sure to do the proper interogations to find out people were lying. We are just asking they do the same for women who are raped.

[-] ProfThadBach@lemmy.world 26 points 6 days ago

Here are all of the Epstein Files that have either been leaked or released.

https://joshwho.net/EpsteinList/gov.uscourts.nysd.447706.1320.0-combined.pdf (verified court documents)

https://joshwho.net/EpsteinList/black-book-unredacted.pdf (verified pre-Bondi) Trump is on page 85, or pdf pg. 80

Trump’s name is circled. The circled individuals are the ones involved in the trafficking ring according to the person who originally released the book. These people would be “The List “ Here is the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsiKUXrlcac

Here's the flight logs https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21165424-epstein-flight-logs-released-in-usa-vs-maxwell/

—————————other Epstein Information

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Calif_Lawsuit.pdf here’s a court doc of Epstein and Trump raping a 13 yr old together.

Some people think this claim is a hoax. Here is Katies testimony on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnib-OORRRo

Epstein’s Ex Says He Boasted About Being a Mossad Agent https://share.google/jLMGahKlCzfV1RHZq Epstein and Israel both hired lawyer Alan Dershowitz, who says he's building 'legal dream team' to defend Israel in court and on internationally | The Times of Israel https://share.google/Lb9hDOduBWG4Elpid

Epstein Docs: https://ia600705.us.archive.org/21/items/epsteindocs/

Epstein Bribes/Payments: 1 BILLION+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7IrEi-ybzs

—————————other Trump information:

Here's trump admitting to peeping on 14-15 year old girls at around 1:40 on the Howard Stern Radio Show: https://youtu.be/iFaQL_kv_QY

Trump's promise to his daughter: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-ivanka-trump-dating-promise_n_57ee98cbe4b024a52d2ead02 “I have a deal with her. She’s 17 and doing great ― Ivanka. She made me promise, swear to her that I would never date a girl younger than her,” Trump said. “So as she grows older, the field is getting very limited.”

Trump's modeling agency was probably part of Jeffreys pipeline: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/donald-trump-model-management-illegal-immigration/

A good summary of Trump-Epstein timeline: https://thepresidential.medium.com/we-have-been-gaslit-about-donald-trump-and-jeffrey-epstein-for-four-years-fbda67c20f75

• ⁠Much of this info can also be found on: https://theepsteindocs.com/

Feel free to do your part and spread this info around so it is never “lost”.

[-] Hikermick@lemmy.world 56 points 6 days ago

Because people lie. What we can do is to not victim shame so women would be less afraid to come forward. This alone would help deter a would be attacker

[-] chandlerbung@lemmy.cafe 9 points 6 days ago

Agreed.

It would also help out men and boys to have a safe environment to come forward with their claims without facing abuse from society/police.

[-] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 27 points 6 days ago

You can't just convict someone on vibes

[-] LadyButterfly@lazysoci.al 16 points 6 days ago

No you can't. You can however refuse to give them a job because they keep making inappropriate remarks about women and multiple women have accused them of sexual abuse, rape and harassment.

[-] phx@lemmy.ca 9 points 6 days ago

EXACTLY. You don't need to "trust", you can look at the comments that were consistently made in regards to women, the vile behavior he engaged in, the known relationships, and the week court cases, i.e the evidence that was there in plain sight but people chose to ignore

[-] brot@feddit.org 5 points 6 days ago

It's not called "vibes", it's called "witness testimony" and every country on earth totally does convict people based on that

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[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago

Fortunately pretty much everyone agrees

[-] VinnyDaCat@lemmy.world 24 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Why can't we just rely on common sense instead of jumping to massive generalizations regarding someones gender?

Trump has been covered in red flags regarding his treatment of women for years. E. Jean Carroll? Stormy Daniels? Katie Johnson? The Hollywood Access Tape?

I'm a little anxious that if Me Too blows up again it may have the opposite effect intended, and instead deflect attention away from Trump as people argue over the movement itself.

[-] InputZero@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago

I've heard some people call this the 'him too' movement. It's supposed to encapsulate the idea that right now we're seeing white men pushback against the 'Me Too', BLM, and 'Trans rights are human rights' movements.

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[-] wildcardology@lemmy.world 21 points 6 days ago

Trust but verify.

[-] peaceful_world_view@lemmy.world 18 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

We all know. The rest is theatre.

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[-] Zezzoz@lemmy.world 18 points 6 days ago

I am all for seeing trump and anyone else in that list behind bars, but this kind of bullshit thinking goes nowhere.

[-] skisnow@lemmy.ca 23 points 6 days ago

At least 26 separate women have accused Trump of SA over the course of the last 50 years, many of them before he entered politics. One of them even got a civil court to find as fact that he committed rape.

Just how many witnesses do you need here? Would another 26 be enough? How about a thousand?

[-] happyfullfridge@lemmy.ml 8 points 6 days ago

how is it bullshit please explain...

[-] kurodriel@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 6 days ago

I'd assume it the bulshit is based on a different interpretation of the word "believe". Some people mean "don't need proof", which is bulshit. Some people mean " investigate as if you thought it were true", which is not bulshit.

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[-] Zomg@piefed.world 24 points 6 days ago

I think people do.believe them, it's just the way justice systems work. It has to be proved without shadow of a doubt.

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[-] KindnessIsPunk@lemmy.ca 19 points 6 days ago

I just want to take a moment to apologize to women for all the bullshit you’ve had to endure, like being treated as interchangeable, objectified, talked down to. None of that is okay, and no one deserves it.

[-] Rachelhazideas@lemmy.world 34 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Apology not accepted. If you personally never did any of the above, then an apology is not needed. Nor is it fair to ask of men to apologize on behalf of other men who did. Women don't want apologies from men who aren't at fault. They just want men to stand up for them.

I get the sentiment, but wording matters because this is the kind of rhetoric the manosphere loves to take out of context to claim that men have to apologize for just being men.

[-] chandlerbung@lemmy.cafe 6 points 6 days ago

Sadly your view is not the norm.

[-] Rachelhazideas@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

It is. And no, I'm not one of the good ones.

Women are tired of 'man guilt' the same way PoC are tired of white guilt. At best, it's self-depracating. At worse, it's performative. Women want empathy and to be heard, not to hear an empty gesture that then gets weaponized by anti-feminists.

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[-] zqps@sh.itjust.works 5 points 6 days ago

That's a fair sentiment individually, but it's not just an individual problem.

Men don't just need to be not part of the problem, they need to actively be part of the solution.

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[-] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Would be cool if i could smile or show kindness around men without tge near certainty that ill be treated like a piece of meat.

Instead i need to take joy in denying them that.

[-] Makhno@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago

What a hero. Line up, ladies, we got an ally over here

[-] plyth@feddit.org 5 points 6 days ago

Would you accept an apology from someone who has hit you in the face and is going to hit you again?

Make it stop first.

[-] KindnessIsPunk@lemmy.ca 10 points 6 days ago

Fair point. Accountability > performance. I’ll sit with that.

[-] chandlerbung@lemmy.cafe 9 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Why would someone who has never hit you in the face need to apologize?

We do not control others actions.

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[-] yermaw@sh.itjust.works 13 points 6 days ago

We believe them, we just need to prove it.

People believe in magic sky daddy, im still waiting for proof there too. To be clear, if proof appears im obeying sky daddy so hard.

[-] Underwaterbob@sh.itjust.works 10 points 6 days ago

I mean, if anyone without Trump's money and influence had this many accusations leveled against them, you can be pretty sure they'd be behind bars by now. It's not that the women aren't being trusted, it's that the entire fucking system is broken. Or more accurately, is designed to serve the rich and powerful.

[-] Sivecano@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 6 days ago

It's not just about trump tho and it's about concrete evidence. The list is yk about getting a list of all the perpetrators.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago

First hand witness testimony is evidence though.

And fwiw we've already got it. Not to mention he's already been found guilty of rape in a court of law if we want to go through the whole "sexual assault means rape and the judge said so" thing. "He's a rapist" is a statement of fact, even if the cowards at ABC News don't want to say so again.

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[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago

Nobody who matters (Trumps fanbase, Trumps voters, Trumps politicans and Trumps supreme court) care whether he's guilty or convicted.

But the Epstein list is something very central to the Trump campagin narrative and thus if he's on there, that could cause major issues between Trump and his fanbase/voters.

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 days ago

i, too, believe in gulity until proven innocent

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[-] kibiz0r@midwest.social 8 points 6 days ago

Well…

If the justice system didn’t have a systemic massive unjustified distrust of women, and it spontaneously reached the peak of equality on this specific metric, then there would probably eventually be a higher rate of false accusations.

And then we’d eventually end up with a latent mild justified skepticism of all sexes, and then we’d still end up needing objective evidence.

So it’d be kinda self-defeating, except for a handful of glory years. Now would be a fantastic time for those glory years, no doubt, but it’s not a long-term solution.

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this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2025
1144 points (100.0% liked)

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