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submitted 2 weeks ago by griff@lemmings.world to c/world@lemmy.world

Israel’s war in Gaza is chipping away at so much of what we – in the United States but also internationally – had agreed upon as acceptable, from the rules governing our freedom of speech to the very laws of armed conflict. It seems no exaggeration to say that the foundation of the international order of the last 77 years is threatened by this change in the obligations governing our legal and political responsibilities to each other.

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[-] known_unknown@lemmy.world 263 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The Jewish people of the world deserve apology from the government of isreal for using their suffering as a political tool in service of genocide.

In conflating politics and imperialism with lineage and race, the political movement of Zionism sows incalculable hatred into the world in the name of Judaism, so that they can reap it later, when Jewish people suffer as meat shields, as justification for expansionism, and forever-war. Down with this theocratic shell game.

[-] oakey66@lemmy.world 113 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

As someone who is a Jewish refugee in the US, there are more than enough Jewish folks in Israel and around the US who are completely fine with what the government of Israel is doing. They should not be let off the hook. I say this fully realizing that the pro Palestinian sentiment has a large Jewish constituency in the US. So it’s not to paint with a broad brush. But people living in Israel are almost 3/4 in support of what is happening and the only protests in that country were from people who wanted to rescue the hostages but were fully on board with the horrors the country is committing in the name of Jews around the world. The conflation of a religion with an ethnicity will end up making us less safe.

[-] Zorque@lemmy.world 46 points 2 weeks ago

That's not because they're Jewish, though, it's because they've let their ego and pride overcome their empathy for their fellow human beings.

There's plenty of non-Jewish people who are also perfectly happy to profit off the suffering of Palestinians.

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[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

My pro-palestinian praxis is making sure my Jewish neighbours have no reason to even think about aliyah. Jewish safety? It's here. Reverse doikayt.

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[-] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 120 points 2 weeks ago

Zionism is a destructive toxic ideology of fascistic bloodlust and racial supremacy. It is the true descendent of Nazi ideology.

[-] Arkouda@lemmy.ca 44 points 2 weeks ago

Given that the Zionist movement was founded decades before the Nazi movement, I would say Nazis are the descendants.

[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 51 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

More accurately, they’re both separate descendants of ethnonationalism which was a popular ideology at that time. And still today, evidently, though it seemed to be in decline for a bit during the post-war period.

[-] madlian@lemmy.cafe 13 points 2 weeks ago

Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine. Joining those two groups is ridiculous and rude to Jewish people.

The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution. That pissed off the local Arabs (understandably) and both of them started arguing—which was not usually violent until 1920-30ish.

That said, after it became a British Mandate (1917), Israel got a ton of international support. And obviously after WWII, they got whatever they wanted…. Which, was choosing violence.

A lot of the reason the Arabs got little support was because they were fragmented, with no leadership. Each of their revolts were seen as a threat and not a legitimate push back against colonization. And, after the Ottoman Empire fell, England and France “stole” that land, so revolts were more or less terrorism (in their eyes, of course).

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 25 points 2 weeks ago

The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution.

This is completely ignoring the boycott and parallel society angle. What Zionists did in pre-mandate Palestine was also forced expulsion of Palestinians; the forcing part was simply delegated to the state. Had they simply wanted to settle in Palestine nobody would've minded, but that was fundamentally not what the Zionist project was.

According to Israeli historian Benny Morris, Zionism was inherently expansionist and always had the goal of turning the entirety of Palestine into a Jewish state. In addition, Morris describes the Zionists as intent on politically and physically dispossessing the Arabs.

The World Zionist Organization established the Jewish National Fund (JNF) in 1901, with the stated goal "to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people." The notion of land "redemption" entailed that the land could not be sold and could not be leased to a non-Jew nor should the land be worked by Arabs.[145] The land purchased was primarily from absentee landlords, and upon purchase of the land, the tenant farmers who traditionally had rights of usufruct were often expelled.

-Wikipedia

Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine.

Nazism had a lot to do with the German people expanding their homeland to Eastern Europe and Russia and murdering the inhabitants. Starting to see the similarities now? Nazism and Zionism are sister ideologies, both fruits from the same rotten tree that is European settler colonialism.

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[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

Zionists are similar tool of oppressiom to nazis

The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution. That pissed off the local Arabs (understandably) and both of them started arguing—which was not usually violent until 1920-30ish

Arab was pissed of when the zionists plan became clear. Owning lands do not give you right to declare a state

There was a group of Yemeni jews who settled in palestine and people was fine with them. Arabs and those jews was going to each other festivities.

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[-] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 47 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Such a shame that doing anything about it, including asking nicely, would be rabidly antisemitic.

Edit: also acknowledging that it's both happening and a problem is antisemitic. You are allowed to day it would be bad if it did, and youre allowed to acknowledge whats happening only while you sing the popular zionist childrens song 'exterminate the brutes'.

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 13 points 2 weeks ago

The only victims of calling palestinian supporter antisemitic is non zionists jews who will exprerience more real antisemitism

[-] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 40 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The split is between governments and the general public. I don't know too many individuals who are ok with what is going on. And if they are, they are being awfully quiet about it.

[-] madlian@lemmy.cafe 20 points 2 weeks ago

The people who are okay with it are the ones who hate the Muslims. Which is a shockingly large number of people and governments.

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[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 30 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Israel does not have a future after this. They're removing their own credibility, and the world knows it. They're nothing but a rogue state at this point, waiting to be put to sleep like a rabid dog.

Like a dying star undergoing supernova. A rampant destruction at the end.

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 20 points 2 weeks ago

All the major western countries still back up israel and.was celebrsting them attacking Iran. Unfortunately israel is not a rogue state yet

[-] Siegfried@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

I bet they are grabbing by the balls most of those states with something. If that is the case, it won't last for long.

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

They buy israeli military tech tested in gaza and are still neocolonial racist countries

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[-] Jumi@lemmy.world 27 points 2 weeks ago

Late stage capitalism is killing the world

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[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 26 points 2 weeks ago

Gaza is the latest in a long line of atrocities committed by countries ostensibly committed to a law of armed conflict.

Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria... hell the US interventions in Somalia and the former Yugoslavia were as horrifying as they were criminal. Sometimes we can find an exigent threat that gives us permission to use overwhelming force to brutalize the bad guys - as in Iraq '91 with the Kuwaiti invasion. Other times we just have to make some shit up, as with Grenada or Vietnam.

But this idea that we've had an international order for any of the last 77 years is more a reflection on the quantity of our propaganda than the quality of our international ethics. The total war Israel is conducting in Gaza, while the US hovers overhead threatening to flatten any Egyptian or Jordanian or Lebanese who attempts to intervene, has been historic in the degree to which far more cushy liberal rhetoric has been replaced with full-throated endorsement of ethnic cleansing.

But the policies themselves? We manufactured a famine in Afghanistan shortly after withdrawing the last US troops. We have repeatedly blocked countries with socialist governments from accessing international markets to obtain relief, such as Bangladesh in '74 and Ethiopia ten years later. Somalia has been under near constant assault by US Navy vessels "policing" the most lucrative fishing territories, driving up rates of piracy as a substitute for traditional subsistence farming. Then you've got the '91 famine in N. Korea and the '94 Cuban hunger crisis, both the consequence of US blockades.

Any one of these would be considered a modern-day Holodomor from the perspective of an objective outside observer. Unfortunately, Americans only get to hear about Gaza - and even then only in dribs and drabs on social media or alt-news publications - as they turn away from the traditional corporate-friendly press venues.

[-] razen@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago

When are we going to talk about African wars?

[-] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 30 points 2 weeks ago

When the US starts being the primary funder of them.

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[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 15 points 2 weeks ago

Talk about them nobody stopping you bt you don't care you just need a way to deflect from the current topic and genocide

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[-] remotedev@lemmy.ca 17 points 2 weeks ago

This may be a stupid question, but why did we need to create Israel in the first place? If my memory from my shitty American education serves me, they had all these survivors of the Holocaust with nowhere to go, so they created Israel for them to live peacefully, fuck whoever was already living there.

But why couldn't they all just go back home? I know everyone was shipped off across Europe to the camps but like... surely they remembered where they lived before? Everything was bombed to hell but that's the same for whoever lived there, Jewish or not. Am I missing a piece that makes the need for their own country to make sense?

[-] ParadoxSeahorse@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

It was more “given up” rather than “freely given” to the Zionists. They were resolute invaders and ferocious terrorists. And once they tuned their sights from the local population to the British, the British fucked off real fast. Then did the paperwork.

[-] ConstableJelly@midwest.social 11 points 2 weeks ago

I'm no less ignorant than you are, but "returning home" isn't as easy as it sounds when your leaders and neighbors were at best complicit and at worst eager conspirators (excepting those who rebelled either openly or secretly) in your extermination. Jews have a rather long history of being...mistreated, for lack of a more appropriate term within reach, so the abstract idea of having a self-governed homeland where you can feel safe as a Jew seems to make some degree of sense in context.

But because Zionism is generally practiced by nationalists and religious zealots, and because colonialism was (and evidently is) still considered a-ok by the global power brokers when all this started, the tone of the occupation became "we're taking your space because we deserve it and you don't" rather than "may we please share your space in mutual benefit for our safe refuge."

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[-] TheReturnOfPEB@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago

the Mayans missed it by like ... 15 years

[-] dastanktal@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 weeks ago

Idk. Seems like this was occurring in 2012 too.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-188596/

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[-] Ileftreddit@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

We are all watching a holocaust live on TV, perpetrated by the victims of a holocaust 80 years ago

[-] TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

It's hard to find a more Nazi way of doing it. Never forget, Zionists signed the Haavara Agreement with Hitler. You can look up Hitler's quotes on Zionists to find that his problem with them was that *"It doesn't even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there" *- that they weren't being imperial colonialist enough and were just all talk. It's sad to see the meaning of genocide twisted so much to use the genocide of the past to protect the genocide of the present. Hitler's problem with Jews in Germany is that they were staying in Germany, it was not with the Zionists who were trying to take over the reigns of Mandate Palestine.

Sort of what we are seeing now, radical far right groups sticking up for each other even when at face value ideologically they should be opposed - because it's not about the lie they are peddling, it's about forcing people out and conquering occupied territory to take their wealth and resources. Not that these far right leaders will ever admit it, but the shifting stream of excuses, justifications, and contradictions create the outline of what they've even lied to themselves about. They are not people of character.

[-] scarabic@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

Our imaginations have always fallen short with regard to World War III. The only thing anyone can visualize is total nuclear destruction, but this world definitely has another actual world war left in it where conventional forces fight it out across multiple fronts, largely through proxies but orchestrated by the major powers. The world economy will plunge into chaos for a decade or more. The political situation in every country around the world will turn to shit. Fascism will bloom and commit mass atrocities. Oh shit… that’s all already happening.

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

Is it? I don't even hear anything out of the Arab states. It should but I don't see much.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 7 points 2 weeks ago

Because America successfully turned most of the Middle East into US puppet states. There's a reason most of the region is ruled by autocratic regimes. The only Arabic-speaking country whose government is materially opposed to Israel now is Yemen.

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[-] demunted@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 weeks ago

Ukraine lowers its head as nobody sees it with its hand up...

While I truely weep for Palestinians this is a large issue that is worldwide. Nobody gives a crap because it's utter chaos everywhere

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[-] clutchtwopointzero@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

that's a bit of hyperbole. Gaza is happening because the institutions were already rotten, and not the other way around

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[-] ptolemai@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

The victim is now the abuser

In repression of counter speech against genocide in almost all western countries to some degree their hand has been shown once again to be prioritizing order over law's rotting corpse.

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this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2025
741 points (100.0% liked)

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