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I often daydream about how society would be if we were not forced by society to pigeon hole ourselves into a specialized career for maximizing the profits of capitalists, and sell most of our time for it.

The idea of creating an entire identity for you around your "career" and only specializing in one thing would be ridiculous in another universe. Humans have so much natural potential for breadth, but that is just not compatible with capitalism.

This is evident with how most people develop "hobbies" outside of work, like wood working, gardening, electronics, music, etc. This idea of separating "hobbies" and the thing we do most of our lives (work) is ridiculous.

Here's how my world could be different if I owned my time and dedicated it to the benefit of my own and my community instead of capitalists:

  • more reading, learning and excusing knowledge with others.
  • learn more handy work, like plumbing and wood working. I love customizing my own home!
  • more gardening
  • participate in the transportation system (picking up shifts to drive a bus for example)
  • become a tour guide for my city
  • cook and bake for my neighbors
  • academic research
  • open source software (and non-software) contributions
  • pick up shifts at a café and make coffee, tea and smoothies for people
  • pick up shifts to clean up public spaces, such as parks or my own neighborhood
  • participate in more than one "professions". I studied one type of engineering but work in a completely different engineering. This already proves I can do both, so why not do both and others?

Humans do not like the same thing over and over every day. It's unnatural. But somehow we revolve our whole livelihood around if.

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[-] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 170 points 1 year ago

Let's not be confused here. Specialization is what allows for free time. If everyone has to farm and hunt, that's all you'd do. Specialization is a good thing for humanity and diverse institutions and industries to arise.

[-] mountainCalledMonkey@lemmy.world 54 points 1 year ago

actually, hunter-gatherer communities 'work' significantly less time than we do in our corporate jobs. farming is a different story: here's one study: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190520115646.htm

[-] Fizz@lemmy.nz 36 points 1 year ago

You can read that study and see that it only represents one instance where hunter gathers were more efficient than farmers in the same region. You cant use that to say to our current system is less efficient. I hate pop science so much its unreal.

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[-] rbesfe@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 year ago

They also have sky high infant mortality rates

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[-] CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 49 points 1 year ago

Yes, but if we only have to work on our specializations for 16 hours a week each instead of 40+, we would have a lot more time for other good stuff, whether it's personal development, supporting other specialists, or just hanging out.

[-] Mudface@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Think about if you had a flat tire in your car. You go to get another tire to replace the one with a hole in it.

But the tire factory only manufactures 300 tires a day. Because they only have a handful of employees who feel like making tires and they only really want to work around 10 hours a week.

Now tires are pretty rare. And that means they are difficult to find. Also, rarity is a supply and demand thing, so now tires are also incredibly expensive. People want a lot of them, but the tire manufacturing plant doesn’t make enough.

Oh, and while you were inside the shop being surprised at the 22 month wait for your replacement tire, and the $3,500 price tag for just the single tire, the other 3 tires were stolen off your car in the parking lot.

Cause people don’t want to pay those prices, or wait that amount of time, which has lead to a massive car tire black market

[-] Lmaydev@programming.dev 28 points 1 year ago

People would use public transport a lot more. Resulting in much better infrastructure.

[-] CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 18 points 1 year ago

Why do we need tire factories working employees 40+ hours a week to make enough tires for everyone? Just hire enough workers so that they all have enough time for a life outside of work. Maybe with a little bit of central planning, we could also reduce the demand for tires by figuring out how to get people to drive less.

[-] Mudface@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

You do understand what an analogy used for the purpose of illustrating a point is, right?

What is it with people and being literal to the point of making a conversation painful?

I could explain all of your questions for you, but it takes a lot of groundwork laying that you should have probably picked up on your own by now, and at least a little bit from the education system.

Is all they teach you in school how great Karl Marx is? Did you learn how businesses operate? Assets, liabilities, profit margins, overhead, OSHA, etc?

C-level executives usually set an operational budget per business department. There is a labour budget included in that. It’s a managers duty to use that budget to fill out the labour needs of the business, based on sales and sales forecasts and any other upcoming business changes.

It’s not really as easy as ‘just hire everyone who walks in the door and don’t enforce any attendance policies, if they want to work they’ll show up. Sure, some days we will have more than we need, and other days we won’t have enough, but if the communities needs more tires, I’m sure they’ll just come in and do the right thing.’

Seriously, have you ever had to depend on someone doing their job before? I’m guessing not.

Anyway, we aren’t really talking about societies need for tires, we are talking about capitalism

[-] CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 12 points 1 year ago

It is the prerogative of the "C-level executives" to maximize the rate of exploitation on behalf of the bourgeoisie. When the working class eventually takes power from the bourgeoisie, that prerogative becomes obsolete (and so do those parasitic executives). Instead of utilizing improvements in productivity to increase the wealth going to the bourgeoisie, they can instead be used to improve the well-being of the working class.

So, if it turns out that we really need more tires, or whatever fits your analogy, then we'll just make more tires. However, the wealth that would have been syphoned off to the idle owner class and their lackeys will instead stay under the control of the workers. Therefore, as the revolution progresses, the workers will gain more and more time, energy, and opportunity for individual and communal fulfillment.

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[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 17 points 1 year ago

First of all, I will start with saying that this is a highly unlikely scenario, because modern technology already allows us way way more tires that we need with a fraction of the labor time we put. But let us assume not and entertain this a bit.

This is a perfect example where members of society will find themselves in a situation where there is a big need for tires that is not being met. Instead of hand wavingly complaining and hoping the government or corporations ramp up production, we remember we don't live under capitalism anymore. We are masters of our own destiny! society is now oriented around human need and wants, not profits! Our prime motivation for working is not to please capitalists in exchange for earning enough to live and a little more. It is to serve the interests of ourselves and our communities, and this is a prime example of a need of ourselves and communities.

So because we are unhappy with the state of tires, we decide to contribute more of the large amount of free time we have to produce more tires (and you only need a tiny fraction of humanity to do this. Consider how many people work in the tire industry right now). The fluidity afforded to us by having both free time and the control over production is a lot greater than you think. We do not even have to imagine this. Many historical civilizations did this already. We can only do better because technology grants us a million times the ability they had to produce.

[-] rbesfe@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Historical civilizations were not producing tires or any goods for that matter at industrial scales, so that comparison is useless. If you think that the only reason profit motives exist today is to "please capitalists", you need to do some more reading into how the industrial economy works.

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[-] Rescuer6394@feddit.nl 15 points 1 year ago

i've worked for 20h/w and 40h/w. i think 30/32 is a good balance

[-] CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 12 points 1 year ago

People are entitled to their preferences. They should also be entitled to overtime after some amount of hours per week that's lower than forty, I think whatever it takes to bring the rate of unemployment to practically zero.

[-] Glide@lemmy.ca 22 points 1 year ago

Yeah, OPs got the spirit but misses the point. We are being pressured to sell our time at a minimum of 40 hours every week. It's thanks to specialization (and the technology that developed from it) that this quantity of of time is grossly over-allocated. Trade and travel allowed people to create better products in less time, so people were no longer very literally working to live, day-in, day-out. Unfortunately wages are kept low, wealth is kept centralized and culture continues to place value on excess so that we're continually convinced that we "have" to work as many hours as we can find.

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[-] TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

There's no efficiency while we're supporting a welfare class of bourgeoisie.

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[-] 9point6@lemmy.world 59 points 1 year ago

I work as a software engineer and I'm also one of these people that just gets a kick out of making things. So I'd probably do some more of that, just not for an employer. Even more contributions to open source would be likely as you've already highlighted.

Would probably build more physical machines/contraptions/electronic doo-dads that I don't have the time or energy to make today. That and I'd probably make more music, or more accurately, finish more music.

Probably grow more vegetables too, but currently that's limited by space anyway.

[-] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 16 points 1 year ago

or more accurately, finish more music.

I felt that one in my bones

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[-] Bye@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago

I would cut cars in half and weld them into the other halves of other cars

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[-] coltorl@programming.dev 37 points 1 year ago

Humans do not like the same thing over and over every day.

Speak for yourself, I like routine and being rewarded for working hard.

[-] ComradePorkRoll@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago

Do you really get rewarded for working hard? Every time I've gone above and beyond for my job it becomes and expectation with no increase in pay. There is no reward for us "no skill" jobs that somehow are the very foundation of this god forsaken societal system we uphold.

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[-] sexual_tomato@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 1 year ago

I'd still be a programmer. I'd work on open source projects 100% of the time. It's something I love to do.

Man's got to eat though. I still work in an area that makes the world slightly less shitty though, so it's not all bad.

[-] cubedsteaks@lemmy.today 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'd have more time to become a better artist.

edit: what the fuck was that unwarranted shitty comment.

[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

dont worry about that other commenter. They're angry that their argument in another comment was argued against, and now they look stupid.

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[-] Sarazil@kbin.social 25 points 1 year ago

I run a goth night once every other month.
I visit friends quite often whenever I want to.
I get up and start my day when I feel like it.
I play with code and build web toys.
I'm a freelance IT guy. I could, if I wanted to, earn a lot more than I do, but my time is worth more than money. It is possible to do, even in this world where everyone is told that you need a 'career' and to work for a company, although a lot more work is needed to freeing other careers from the obligation of the grind.
Don't give up hope, unionise, demand respect, ~~buy a guillotine,~~ and keep an eye out for a way to get what you need and to contribute to society or your community without signing your life away.

(Yes, some people will never get the opportunity. And that, frankly, pisses me off no end. But don't lose hope until you're dead.)

[-] Mudface@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

Why is there so much communist content on lemmy?

[-] darq@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago

Not every criticism of capitalism is communism.

But also, is it any wonder that a platform built without a profit incentive and centred around the concepts of mutual voluntary interaction rather than hierarchical control would attract a more anti-capitalist userbase?

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[-] matcha_addict@lemy.lol 14 points 1 year ago

I love how the mere idea of thinking about a better world away from capitalism immediately says "communism!" to you people, and you don't see the irony of it

[-] Mudface@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

It’s pretty obvious by the language you’re using that you’re a communist ‘selling your time to capitalists’ isn’t really very subtle

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[-] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago

I'd rewrite the game engines for Command & Conquer games so that they could be modernized.

It's a perfectly doable task, but not with the amount of free time I have.

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[-] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 1 year ago

I think I would travel or wander a lot more. Not in an instagram backpacker kind of way, just in a dawdle from town to town road trippy kind of way.

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[-] Fizz@lemmy.nz 17 points 1 year ago

If I wasnt working a job for money I wouldn't be doing anything that contributed to making food or providing infrastructure. What I did with my time would probably be considered useless by society and that's why I'm not doing it as a job currently.

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[-] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago

I'd do what I'm doing now but I'd be helping hospitals and schools instead of companies.

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[-] luke@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago

Jesus Christ this post sucks

[-] hoodatninja@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago

If only we had a voting system to express whether we thought a post meaningfully contributed or not!

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[-] hoodatninja@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago

Produce documentaries, develop a video game

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[-] DrQuint@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

I would sleep a lot more, that's for sure.

[-] Zeth0s@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Basic research. I left basic research because research in academia is a lost cause, killed by lack of funding, hyper toxic environment, rat race to the bottom, mafias and corruption.

It is so bad that I feel a much more morally cleaner environment working in finance.

I would go back doing what I used to do, but without the baggage that forced most of us to leave

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this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
385 points (100.0% liked)

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