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[-] db2@lemmy.world 145 points 3 weeks ago

But is it backwards compatible with an old version that can't be updated?

[-] otacon239@lemmy.world 90 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah, this was my first thought. How many slightly older, no-longer-being-updated pieces of software will fail to open the new version? Hopefully it’s built in a way that it just falls back to legacy and ignores the extra information so you can at least load the file.

[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 54 points 3 weeks ago

Popular photo and video editing apps like Photoshop, DaVinci Resolve, and Avid Media Composer already support it, alongside Chrome, Safari, and Firefox. Apple’s iOS and macOS also work with the new file standard.

This is all the article mentions. I hope you’re right about the backwards compatibility.

[-] ouRKaoS@lemmy.today 66 points 3 weeks ago

I remember the Wild West Web days when it was a toss up seeing if animated Gifs, transparencies in images, or the specific hexadecimal for your personal shade of purple you created would render properly between browsers.

[-] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 42 points 3 weeks ago
[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

Ooh, that was the coaster company, I remember them.

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 26 points 3 weeks ago

I mean, that's already how animated .gifs work. If somehow you manage to load one into a viewer that doesn't support the animation functionality it will at least dutifully display the first frame.

How the hell you would manage to do that in this day and age escapes me, but there were a fair few years in the early '90s where you might run into that sort of thing.

[-] awesomesauce309@midwest.social 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Probably most notably the iOS photos app until like 2014.

Edit: just checked. iOS 11 in 2017 added gif support to photos

I’ll also add, safari supported animated gifs for a long time before that and you could still save them in safari like any other image. But photos would only show the first frame like you said. When 11 came out they played like normal.

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[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 30 points 3 weeks ago

Speaking for animation, your browser probably already supports APNG. APNG is 21 years old and has decent adoption. But it’s officially part of the club.

That said, APNGs are fat as fuck and they’re a pretty old solution to animated graphics with an alpha channel. Don’t expect to see everyone making APNGs all of the sudden. There is a reason why people have kept it at a distance.

[-] Deebster@infosec.pub 19 points 3 weeks ago

Some of this is paving the cowpath - the animated PNG stuff is 20 years old and e.g. Firefox has had support since March 2007.

[-] Tetsuo@jlai.lu 9 points 3 weeks ago

I'm probably gonna be massively downvoted for saying the forbidden word but I asked AI to do a summary with references of the forward and backward compatibility of PNG's new version:

!

Based on recent search results, the new PNG specification (Third Edition) and its reference library (libpng) maintain strong backward compatibility while introducing modern features. Here's a detailed compatibility analysis:

🔄 1. Backward Compatibility (Viewing Old PNGs with New Lib)

  • Full Support: The new libpng (1.6.49+) and PNG Third Edition fully support legacy PNG files. Existing PNGs (conforming to the 2003/2004 spec) will render correctly without changes .
  • Implementation Stability: Libpng's API evolution (e.g., hiding png_struct/png_info internals since 1.5.0) ensures older apps using png_get_*/png_set_* functions remain compatible. Direct struct access, deprecated since 1.4.x, may break in libpng 2.0.x (C99-only) .
  • Security Enhancements: Critical vulnerabilities (e.g., CVE-2019-7317 in png_image_free()) were patched in libpng 1.6.37+, making the new lib safer for decoding old files .

⚠️ 2. Forward Compatibility (Viewing New PNGs with Old Lib)

  • Basic Support: Older libpng versions (pre-1.6.37) can decode new PNGs if they avoid new features. Core chunks like IHDR or IDAT remain unchanged .
  • New Feature Limitations:
    • HDR Imagery: Requires libpng 1.6.45+ and apps supporting the mDCv chunk. Older libs ignore HDR data, falling back to SDR, which may cause color inaccuracies .
    • APNG Animation: Officially standardized in PNG Third Edition. Older libs (e.g., <1.6) treat APNG as static images, showing only the first frame .
    • EXIF Metadata: New eXIf chunks are ignored by legacy decoders, losing metadata like GPS or copyright info .
  • Security Risks: Older libs (e.g., ≤1.6.36) contain unpatched vulnerabilities (e.g., CVE-2015-8126). Parsing malicious new PNGs could exploit these flaws .

📊 Compatibility Summary

Scenario Compatibility Key Considerations
Old PNG → New Lib ✅ Excellent Legacy files work flawlessly; security improved.
New PNG → Old Lib ⚠️ Partial Basic rendering works, but HDR/APNG/EXIF ignored. Security risks in unpatched versions.
New Features 🔧 Conditional Requires updated apps (e.g., Photoshop, browsers) and OS support .

🔧 3. Implementation and Industry Adoption

  • Broad Support: Major browsers (Chrome, Safari, Firefox), OSs (iOS, macOS), and tools (Photoshop, DaVinci Resolve) already support the new spec .
  • Progressive Enhancement: New features like HDR use optional chunks, ensuring graceful degradation in older software .
  • Future-Proofing: Work on PNG Fourth Edition (HDR/SDR interoperability) and Fifth Edition (better compression) is underway .

💎 Conclusion

  • Upgrade Recommended: New libpng (1.6.49+) ensures security and full compatibility with legacy files.
  • Test Workflows: Verify critical tools handle new features (e.g., APNG animation in browsers).
  • Fallbacks for Old Systems: For environments stuck with outdated libs, convert new PNGs to legacy format (e.g., strip HDR/APNG) .

For developers: Use png_get_valid(png_ptr, info_ptr, PNG_INFO_mDCv) to check HDR support and provide fallbacks .

!<

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[-] SkavarSharraddas@gehirneimer.de 9 points 3 weeks ago

Probably means there will be new PNGs that old software won't be able to open.

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[-] cley_faye@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

The PNG format is made of chunks that have determined roles, and provides provisions for newer "standardized" chunks alongside the custom chunks it had supported until now. It is likely that PNG made with newer software that does not use new features, or uses only additional features, will remain readable by older software to some extent.

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[-] tourist@lemmy.world 113 points 3 weeks ago

2029 Headline: Worlds largest data breach caused by zero day exploit in popular PNG 3.0 renderer

the payload was reportedly embedded in an animated image of the attacker repeatedly flicking his left testicle

[-] FrowingFostek@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago
[-] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 22 points 3 weeks ago

I bet it was a single flick and he ran it on a loop.

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[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 57 points 3 weeks ago

Animated PNG has been trying to be an extension to the PNG spec for 20+ years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APNG

[-] mlg@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

Right there's actually like a select few applications that support it which is cool, but so many get confused when they see an apng file with frames.

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[-] apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world 55 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I could have sworn animated pngs were a thing in the Macromedia Fireworks days. Really dating myself with that ref.

[-] nyan@lemmy.cafe 47 points 3 weeks ago

There were two different animated PNG extensions, MNG and APNG. Neither of them ever really caught on. I guess they're hoping to do better by baking it into the core spec.

[-] Deebster@infosec.pub 22 points 3 weeks ago

APNG is what they're using in v3, so all many libraries need to do* is update that code for HDR.

* surely that's easy, right?

[-] jonne@infosec.pub 16 points 3 weeks ago

I mean, on a Linux system that's not riddled with flatpak / snap / ... You'd basically only need to update libpng and you'd be good.

[-] cley_faye@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

Yes. But if you live in the future, you have to wait for dozens of dozens of intermediate to do so! Great!

[-] Substance_P@lemmy.world 14 points 3 weeks ago

I miss the days when all the cool websites used Flash. I think Macromedia killed it for some reason. Probably because it had security flaws, back then it was pretty bandwidth-intensive too, but it made for some dynamic web designs.

[-] frezik 28 points 3 weeks ago

Flash had a myriad of problems. Web devs celebrated its death.

[-] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 3 weeks ago

The current situation with megabytes of JavaScript is pretty bad, but at the time, there was still a fair bit of dialup active, and mobile web was just starting to be a thing - on EDGE and barely 3G. It would take minutes to load.

Also, Steve Jobs had it in for Flash and that’s what ultimately killed it off, I think.

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago

Yes, the iPhone did not and never has supported Flash. At least not officially from Apple. There was support, albeit not quite 100% complete, on Windows CE/PocketPC at the time, though. That was one of the things that let me lord it over early iPhone adopters back in the day — my pocket nerd computer could play Homestar Runner videos, and their stupid expensive bauble couldn't. So there.

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[-] cley_faye@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

Flash was a security nightmare all round, not counting the security flaws. It was just designed without any security features. It was also terribly inefficient at its core job, that was supposedly vector animation. It filled a gap in a time where browser and standards where not that advanced.

Over time, Flash issues where never resolved, but the bloatness of the software kept increasing. Along the way, HTML got better specs, JavaScript got vast improvement, especially in everyone adhering to roughly the same standard (thanks microsoft for finally caving in…), and so the flash interpreter was highly redundant with the browser itself.

For a while flash editors could export in HTML5 and you'd get roughly the same result, but with a fraction of the resources requirements, so naturally there was little incentive to keep the flash player around.

I'm not sure if "killing flash" could be attributed to their author, or to the loss of interest.

Also note that alternative flash players exists to still play older swf files, and some sites uses them alongside with plain video conversion for flash animations that weren't dynamic.

[-] tonytins@pawb.social 7 points 3 weeks ago

Sigh, I miss Macromedia. Anyway, I do remember that being a thing as well. Guess it was never officially part of the spec.

[-] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 weeks ago

I miss fireworks. For me that was the best. I've never jived with Photoshop or is alternatives.

I have since landed on krita, aseprite and inkscape. But i still miss the workflow I got used to with fireworks.

[-] Zarxrax@lemmy.world 28 points 3 weeks ago

Fracturing support for a legacy format makes so much more sense than actually supporting a modern format like JXL, right?

[-] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 13 points 3 weeks ago

If this actually stands a chance of taking off, I'll honestly take what I can get to normalise HDR images

[-] sturlabragason@lemmy.world 24 points 3 weeks ago
[-] helpImTrappedOnline@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago

Is it pronounced png or png?

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[-] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 16 points 3 weeks ago

HDR capable PNGs that don't look shite on SDR displays? Sign me up!

[-] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 13 points 3 weeks ago

Jxl train choo choo

[-] lemmyknow@lemmy.today 10 points 3 weeks ago

Now if anyone don't mind explaining, PNG vs JXL?

[-] AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 21 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

JXL is badly supported but it does offer lossless encoding in a more flexible and much more efficient way than png does

Basically jxl could theoretically replace png, jpg, and also exr.

[-] lemmyknow@lemmy.today 7 points 3 weeks ago

Interestingly, I downloaded GNOME's pride month wallpaper to see what it looked like, and the files were JXL. Never seen them in the wild before that

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[-] FireWire400@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago

It's great that Papua New Guinea is still receiving updates /s

[-] pewgar_seemsimandroid 6 points 3 weeks ago
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this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2025
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