397
THE RENT
IS
TOO
DAMN
HIGH
Trying to find a place to live where the rent won't take over 50% of my income. I work full time teaching disabled children, and after successfully negotiating for a raise, I make over $10 more per hour than my state's minimum wage.
Yet for some reason, everyone takes issue when I say I'm ready to just move into my car. I've lived in a vehicle before, it's not fun or easy, but it's a roof I already own, and from the rent prices I see, that's the best chance I've got to be guaranteed shelter.
The other way to read this data is that 75% (a sizable majority) of people feel they can be comfortable on less than $150k. I also suspect this strongly correlates to location. Someone living in Washington, DC is going to need a lot more to feel comfortable than someone living in Bumblefuck, MO.
I got lucky enough to live on benefits, a bit less than $15,000 annually. While I don't have to pay for housing, things like food, data, and car take up a good chunk of that money. Up until about 2 years ago, I was also able to regularly set aside about $300 a month for an ABLE account if I exercised restraint.
The economy continues to worsen, so I can't save money anymore. Plus, getting the gear and training for joining a militia takes a fair bit of coin. I am expecting the USA we knew to dissolve someday, and hopefully can support my state with my body if conflict breaks out. Don't really have anything else to offer society.
Yeah, sounds about right if you want to be able to be comfortable at home and have money for maybe a modest vacation once a year.
I make way less, but it would be nice to be able to afford to travel at least once a year. Not worry about car repairs setting me back etc etc.
Don't forget any shot at a reasonable retirement too
Half of California:
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Half by land, much more by population. California’s basic cost of living is insane. $150k would be “barely scraping by in a studio apartment” within 100 miles of any major city.
With the exception of places like Anzo Borrego, but there's a reason for that. Horrible summers and winters.
I don't nees to make more, everything else needs to cost less. 😠
Who cares what people "feel"? It has nothing to do with "feelings". Just calculate how much it actually costs to live comfortably, and you'll find that $150k works.
You can't define "comfortably" without feeling.
You can, though. At least to the extent of saying that "comfortable" means that all your basic needs are met, and you have money left over for more than that. How much more, is a matter of preference...but as long as that basic minimum is met, the rest is just different degrees of comfort.
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My wife and I make about $100k/yr combined. I can absolutely confirm that 50% more money will go directly into making our lives more comfortable.
Why is the cost of living so incredibly high in the US?
It cannot be because of consumer goods. Because both Europe and the US have similar prices for those since they are made by international companies.
It cannot be food, the US is a big exporter of food. And those exports go to countries with lower costs of living.
It cannot be vacations. You could "just" fly to Europe and have european vacation prices.
Is it just housing and healthcare?
Yes it is housing and healthcare. Even with health insurance, a major sickness can bankrupt anybody, especially when insurance denies coverage.
Which is why I'm considering a Do Not Resuscitate. I don't want some asshole EMT to bring me back.
Wage theft. Seriously, it is the biggest drain of money from ordinary workers.
That's a large portion of it yes. Don't forget that 150k salary is before taxes. The cost of food has sky rocketed lately. Don't forget transportation. If you live in a big city you might take a bus or Metro, but for most Americans there isn't a good network so add gas, car insurance, and possibly a car payment if you don't own. And if you have kids get ready for child care expenses, unless you have a stay at home parent... But then you only have one income. Rent, utilities, little glasses for Timmy, cell phone bills and those TV subscriptions you're slowly sailing the high seas on as they nickel and dime you. It all adds up.
Europeans also buy little glasses for Timmy and such. I don't think the price of those kind of things is much different. Same for utilities, phone and TV. The one I'm most uncertain about is utilities, but I believe electricity at least is usually cheaper in america.
The car one is fair. Although it's true that in Europe there's also tons of people on cars, public transit is at least a valid option, unlike in much of the US.
Taxes is not though. Taxes in america are usually way lower than in Europe.
So transportation+healthcare are the only expenses that are clearly more expensive in america. Housing being highly dependant on location is hard to compare nation-based. And it's also the biggest component. I'd be curious to see the actual "living wage" difference between two places, one Europeans and another American with similar housing prices.
Ten years ago, things might have been cheaper, but not any longer. I'm an American living in an expensive part of Europe, while also maintaining a place in a similarly expensive part of the US. I'm going to say Europe Here but I'm referring to our specific corner of Europe which has a huge range of costs. Similar for the US. Here are my actual numbers:
Electricity: Europe: 99€ US: $95
Internet: Europe: 26€ US: $62
mobile phone (per line): Europe: 17€ US: $40
grocery budget (monthly) family of two: Europe: 750€ US: $900
Health insurance monthly (private): Europe: 190€ US: $800 (partially subsidized by work, real price closer to $1200)
Car insurance monthly: Europe: 105€ US: $195
Petrol costs monthly: Europe: 225€ ~7€/gallon US: $250 ~$3.50/gallon
Oil change at car dealership: Europe: 70€ US: $95
US mortgage + tax + insurance (2 bedroom house): $1775
Europe rent + renter insurance: 1225€
Local mid range restaurant: Europe: 62€ US: $105
Dog grooming: Europe: 60€ US: $95
Vet visit: Europe: 60€ US: $150
Doctors visit (with insurance): Europe: 30€ US: $50
Diagnostic labs (with insurance): Europe: 30€ US: $150
The US has become shockingly expensive. Some of this is because we spend more to eat quality food when there, and we are in a bit of a touristy area. Both locations are in touristy areas though, so not entirely different. I might be in the minority but I don't see much difference in lifestyle between the two areas I frequent.
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The fruits and vegetables are about the same price but taste much better in Europe.
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The bread is far cheaper, more available and better in Europe.
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The specialty products we like to eat are much cheaper in Europe. Eg, feta cheese, french butter and jam, etc.
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The meat is about the same, maybe a bit cheaper in Europe. I don't taste much difference.
The most important differences for us are:
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If we don't feel good we go the the emergency room in Europe. Yes we will wait a long time to be seen, but the cost last time was 175€. In the US, you will wait a day to see if you feel better, because you are going to wait just as long and the bill will be a minimum of $1200 with insurance.
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We do not take the car out every day in Europe, because we can walk to a small grocery store, medical lab, print shop, bakery. We must take the car out for any trip in the US, and the distances are longer.
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Customer service in Europe is sometimes not all that helpful, and they give that impression to you when talking to them. Customer service in the US seems very nice and accommodating, but they are equally unhelpful in most cases.
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People you hire to do work for you seem to have far more variability in the US. They might be extraordinarily expensive, super cheap, might not show up, etc. In Europe, the prices seem to be on average cheaper than the US, and the workers on average a bit more reliable, but more laid back and less busy than in the US.
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And finally, most importantly, any company you deal with in the US will constantly try to extract more and more from you. Every year, prices ratchet up, new charges are itemized, things previously included now cost extra, billing mistakes are created and they are never in your favor. In Europe our experience is that companies you deal with mostly maintain prices. To be fair, some of these are sanctioned monopolies, but the same is true in the US and somehow they do it anyway. This has been our experience with insurance, utilities, car maintenance, etc. The system wears you down in the US until you have no fight left.
There are cost of living calculators that give very basic averages of areas. I can tell when I lived in NC I paid about 30$ for car insurance. But when I lived in Detroit MI I payed about 300$. Monthly. That was about 7-8 years ago. Apartments in my small little town in PA are going for about 1500-1800$ for a 1 bedroom apartment. For healthcare I pay about 200$ a week. That's for a family of 3.
Housing is expensive in the UK as well isn't it? Most times I hear prices they seem pretty comparable. Just like the US there is also a large variation by location of course, cities completely unaffordable and towns just very expensive.
Around me is ~65m² bungalows, £225-275k in a town quite a long way from London, along the south coast. London prices scare me so I try and pretend nothing exists within the M25.
Well, it would be incredibly naive to omit or not factor in all the tax-raping. You make $150K, good for you, but you don't get to keep that. Using my state, I Googled how much money is stolen when you earn $150K...they steal $45,442. Leaving you with $104,558. How generous of them. 🙄
So the average person wants to make $150K annually SO THEY CAN KEEP just slightly over $100K. Then yes, the health care & the bills & the savings & the spending. It can chew through $100K quickly enough.
Ignoring all the taxation is theft bullshit, my original question is how is america so expensive that living wages are considered 8x of the highest minimum wages of europe (Less than 20k).
America has lower taxes than any European country. So that cannot be the answer.
*income taxes are lower in America
I would argue that the overall tax burden to the government is not all that different. Income tax rates are higher in Europe, 37% in the US at my top tier and about 47% in Europe at the same top tier. However, the US has a lot of hidden taxes, and a whole lot of corporate parasitism which functions as a tax
So tell me. What are those hidden taxes?
What type of corporate parasitism are you referring to that hurts Americans more than Europeans?
Of course! On a house we could purchase in France, the property tax will be around $1300€. I pay $4000 in the US, up from $1800 in 2021.
The $4000 in the US surprisingly doesn't actually cover anything. My city charges my around $75 monthly for trash service. I also have a county solid waste fee to pay. Last year I replaced my air conditioning, and the county permit to do this was $500. I am lucky because some cities require an HVAC technician licensed in that city, which obviously charge a big premium. My electricity company, a monopoly in my area, charges $26 each month in state maintenance fund fees and delivery charges, separate from my electricity consumption. What are these?
My home insurance is also around $4000, and is required by my mortgage. There is unfortunately only one provider in my area, and they include policy disclaimers that they may not be able to pay claims at all, and that I can't sue them if they are insolvent. They raise their rate about 25% per year.
My car insurance also consistently raises rates by double digit percentages, but they do it quietly by simply "auto renewing" at the increased amount. This is without accidents or tickets, and a vehicle which is another year older.
VAT is 20% in France, but is included in the prices at the grocery store, and not included on essential food items. In my area in the US, we owe 7% sales tax on essential items.
Speaking of my grocery store in the US, it is essentially a monopoly and they charge outrageous prices for many things because they can. The nearest health clinic to my house in the US is owned by private equity, and a visit with some routine scans and lab work will precipitate an array of invoices from random medical billing offices all over the country, for seemingly random amounts.
As someone who has lived in a number of different countries as an expat over the years, the US is unique in the scale of the day to day extraction. Living in an apartment, from my experience, is far worse in the US. Things like COVID sanitization fee $500, mandatory parcel hold service, $29, mandatory trash concierge, $29, community utilities, $50, deposit insurance $299, etc etc etc. Everything is an unregulated opportunity to extract. You can sue for really egregious things and outright fraud, but it costs $75 to do that, plus you have to pay a private process server to start the lawsuit. Do you have time to do that for everything?
The true state of the way things are in America should be a warning for Europeans to avoid going down that path. Our federal income tax is lower in the US, but we have significant tax bills due at the many levels of government from neighborhood, municipality, county, and state. Maybe it is less than 10% of some people's income, but not most people.
It was nice to learn of all this bullshit. Thank you.
oh fun, an actual "taxation is theft" person. i'm assuming you don't drive?
On one hand, it’s reasonable for Americans to be upset with their taxes because they pay so much and get so little in return. On the other hand, you never see these people complaining about how so much their taxes go to corporate handouts and plunder instead of useful things like socialized health care, child care, housing, etc. instead it becomes all about them personally. It’s very telling. The US is a land of mentally ill sycophants.
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Wow I can't believe how little you understand about what taxes are and how they work. The US has some of the lowest tax rates compared to its peers.
Those are pretty low taxes
1 in 4 sounds more than ~25% but it’s 25% that’s a minority that feel this way, it’s not a reflection of most of our realities. Yes the cost of living is too high but ~75% don’t feel we need $150,000 to be comfortable
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Yeah, this hits home all right. I'm Gen-X, and while I always got by OK on a very low income even here in Seattle, it was entirely due to have a very modest lifestyle and the sheer luck of that rarest of Seattle unicorns, reasonable rent.
The stars aligned, and over the course of only a few years I've suddenly moved into a very comfortable 6 figure salary, and oh holy jebus words cannot express how much stress just…evaporates…when you've got enough to cover all expenses and easily sock away some money too.
Of course, that was promptly replaced by a new stress, the realization that I might just possibly thread the needle and end up with a comfortable retirement—not rich mind you, just not in penury—but I now had to save, save, save, save, save.
Work affords me access to both a 403B and a 457B, which has helped immensely in my quest to get savings built up appropriate for my age bracket, but all that anxiety is back now that I've got a retirement fund that was on track, but now the orange twitiot is doing his damndest to wreck our economy, likely for good. I'm just waiting to watch everything I've invested go up in smoke. It's nerve-wracking, but hey, at least I'm Gen-X and know exactly what it's like to live with existential dread. After a childhood fearing nuclear holocaust at any moment, this new anxiety is practically a cakewalk!
Oh, who am I kidding? It still sucks.
Fuck.
This title is so dumb. Just say 26% of Americans.
Particularly since that has to also include investing for later retirement in an entirely uncertain economic future.
When I was single I was comfortable with £11k which is adjusted for inflation from 2016. Maybe some of you are miserable because you think you need expensive things to be happy.
There are a few expensive things I find necessary in the modern world. Those being food and a roof over my head. If you have suggestions for going without either of those, I’m all ears. Otherwise, fuck off with that nonsense.
Sure rent/mortgages are expensive, but not 150k expensive. Food costs fuck all in comparison to rent it may as well be a rounding error.
Clearly you haven't lived in any state that isn't in fuck all Wyoming.
Shits expensive as hell
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Or maybe you lived in an environment where some of those expenses were socialized via a broad social net - or you have connections via friends and family that you've underestimated the value of (a friend with a truck is cheaper to buy lunch for than renting movers). If I had reliable access to food shelter transportation and information at negligible costs (assuming ~$800/month constitutes low cost rent), I can totally imagine living within a budget of $15k/year (covering pounds to USD).
However, I used to live in Phoenix but moved due to the rental crisis. Simple clean 1 bedroom apartments are going for $1600/month, which blows your budget in rent alone. (The lowest rate I could find was $750/month, but you had to be officially poor ("restricted income") to qualify).
But before I condemn you in assumptions, maybe I'm wrong - would you be willing to break down your living expenses for those who would follow in your path?
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wow, what afucking shithole of an economic system, huh?
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this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
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