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[-] yarr@feddit.nl 16 points 1 day ago

This is one of the reason that the USA being heavy handed with Chinese is going to bite us in the ass. While in the USA, we bury our heads in the sand and GM, Tesla and etc. all crank out $95,000 giant trucks/SUVs, some companies in China are making very, very affordable vehicles. These aren't necessarily garbage either -- there's models available for almost any price point.

What WOULD be really smart and forward thinking is if in the USA, the domestic brands also make some affordable models to get EV more popular. However, they are addicted to fat profit margins, and thanks to all the protectionism, they don't need to worry about offshore models being "better".

While other nations either develop and/or import affordable EVs, we're effectively banning them. This is all going to end up with a giant wake up call for American auto-manufacturers when the protections/tariffs are ultimately lifted and they HAVE to compete.

I think it would be great if the tariffs came with huge incentives for domestic manufacturers and motivated them to be competitive. Instead, it's just letting them segment the market for a few years and make a killing. Who loses? The people...

[-] weew@lemmy.ca 16 points 22 hours ago

These cars are passing EU safety tests which are generally more demanding than the USA.

They are definitely getting good, fast.

[-] immutable@lemmy.zip 9 points 23 hours ago

Not just people, the economy will end up paying the price.

Tariffs have horrible second order effects.

Every companies outputs is some other companies inputs.

American companies end up locked out of more affordable vehicles as inputs. That cost then gets baked into its output, which is some other company’s input. Then just keep following that chain.

The best broad blanket tariffs can hope to do is trade long term competitiveness for some short term price increase.

Americans will wonder why other nations eat our lunch in the coming decades. Well that foreign company could buy the cheaper machine to produce the widget, their raw materials cost less to deliver because the transit company that ships it in charges a better rate because they have lower vehicle overhead. Since they have 2 dozen suppliers for their components both foreign and domestic they are forced to compete on quality and price.

American companies will become even more bloated and inefficient

This is the real reason for tarrifs. Forcing citizens into paying ridiculous prices so biliionares can circle jerk about how much more power they can get. They're scourges and bottomless voids of resources and misery.

[-] CatDogL0ver@lemmy.world 1 points 23 hours ago

It was just like what happened to the American auto industry before. Instead of listening to the market, we tell the market what they should buy.

We are losing our edge. People don't want expensive cars. They want affordable, reliable cars. It was just like earlier Japanese cars. Japan is losing their edge too.

Honda is too unreliable. I won't buy Honda again.

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 37 points 1 day ago

Even before the current political situation I wouldn't have bought a Tesla. They have a documented quality problem and not very good customer service at least outside of the US.

Why would I buy a car that is not only more likely than most to break but when it does break it's hard to get fixed. Spare parts are notoriously hard to get hold of and you usually have to deal with Tesla directly which is a problem because they don't have a lot of dealerships in the UK. Also they won't come to you, so if your car won't start you have to arrange a pickup.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

They have terrible customer service in the US too. I think it's their business model: find people who enjoy being treated like an asshole and sell them overpriced shit.

[-] GladiusB@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

So like Apple but more expensive

I used to like and look up to SpaceX for the interesting stuff that they build,

but nowadays i don't care anymore. The company can fail for all i care. Musk spoiled it.

The tipping point, for me personally, was when Musk seriously threatened to slash public spending in February this year. It shows a clear disrespect to the people, and frankly, a sociopathic attitude.

Musk had everything, lots of money, lots of fame, lots of influence, but he threw it all away when he decided to threaten the wellbeing and lifelyhood of a lot of people just so that rich assholes can make an extra buck through tax cuts.

He's basically gutting NASA so it can be reduced to a taxpayer-funded corporate subsidy for greedy billionaires and giant corps. They're killing everyone's dreams and inspiration.

[-] barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 21 points 1 day ago

SpaceX should be nationalized. We paid for it, it's ours.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 15 points 1 day ago

I don't know why you didn't just fund NASA properly.

[-] Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

Government agencies can't bribe as good. Our politicians are whipped dogs who sell the free world for less than an F-150 a year in kickbacks.

[-] VerticaGG 8 points 1 day ago

For those maybe blissfully ignorant of car culture that's an F-150 (the grocery getter for fragile egos) oversized pickup truck , and not some fighter jet.

[-] fishy@lemmy.today 10 points 1 day ago

Agreed. This system of giving out money and getting what we paid for sold back to us is fucking dumb.

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[-] bluedye@lemm.ee 17 points 1 day ago

Better super late than never.

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[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 7 points 1 day ago
[-] Pirate@feddit.org 21 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Chinese electric cars are just better. BYD is what Tesla wanted to be, but actually fulfills its promises. Plus it isn't ran by a nazi dictator.

[-] sparky@lemmy.federate.cc 28 points 1 day ago

I uh.. you sure about that dictator thing? xi jinping enters the chat

[-] Pirate@feddit.org 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If you think Xi Jinping is dictating what BYD does with their cars then you don't understand the fundamentals as to why China managed to attract so much foreign investment and got to where they are now in the first place.

[-] chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Foreign investment was because of cheap labor and companies being subsidized by the communist government......

BYD might make a better car than Tesla, but saying that a Chinese company isn't "under the control of Xi Jinping", the guy who crushed Hong Kong for having too much independence and wants to do the same with Taiwan, is laughable.

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 9 points 1 day ago

That's actually a bit of a myth you know. Labour in China used to be dirt cheap 30 years ago but that's not the case now. You need experts to build cars and they demand an appropriate salary. They probably don't get paid as much as they would in the west but they're not being paid pennies an hour either. However the idea that China is cheap has persisted.

There's a reason that Apple doesn't make the iPhone there anymore. It was getting too expensive ie they were being asked to pay for a decent wage, and they weren't prepared to.

[-] chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

I was more saying cheap "when companies moved in". Now it just has the workforce and supply chain knowledge/infrastructure because of those investments.

Corporate fucktard assholes are running out of cheap labor around the world. They keep moving it around, but eventually there won't be any place to go.

[-] Pirate@feddit.org 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

but saying that a Chinese company isn't "under the control of Xi Jinping", the guy who crushed Hong Kong for having too much independence and wants to do the same with Taiwan, is laughable.

Just take that sentence at face value and consider the ridiculousness of actually believing the guy alone has that amount of crushing power.

You're just regurgitating unfounded US propaganda which, this being Lemmy, is very unfortunate to see.

[-] chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

"Unfounded US propaganda".

Are you saying China DIDN'T aggressively take over Hong Kong and all of the businesses that operated there?

Xi is the head of the government in a totalitarian, communist regime. Just because he might be "leaving BYD alone" or whatever today does not mean that couldn't change in an instant.

The United States is its own form of screwed up and is an absolute mess. I'm not sitting over here going 'US good. China bad". I'm making the point they're both bad in different ways.

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[-] iii@mander.xyz 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

the guy alone has that amount of crushing power.

Nobody of right mind takes this at face value. This isn't a pro wrestling heavyweight championship belt, with Jinping suplexing the Hong Kong protestors.

It's obviously as head of an autoritarian communist regime, using corona measures and a militarized police to suppress people for the extravagant act of desiring freedom from the CCP.

[-] Pirate@feddit.org 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

But even that is incorrect.

Yes, Xi Jinping is powerful as the Chairman of the party, but the communist party of China is not the military, and there is a fair amount of decentralization in decision making.

Further, the guy above goes "look at how Xi is suplexing Taiwan?!?!" even though he isn't because guess what, he doesn't actually have the power to do so.

Also, none of this has anything to do with the topic of EV production, which is in the hands of a private company which largely operates independently of the government, much like millions of other companies that operate in China.

Which is why I said the dude is just spewing brainless US state propaganda and Red Herring.

[-] iii@mander.xyz 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Further, the guy above goes "look at how Xi is suplexing Taiwan?!?!"

I think you're the only one reading it that way. The rest of us understand that it happens within a context of an autoritarian regime.

which is in the hands of a private company which largely operates independently of the government

Independent untill the party decides they're not independent. (Eg).

[-] Pirate@feddit.org 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Independent untill the party decides they're not independent. (Eg).

Again another non-sequitor that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Nobody disagrees that China doesn't like people publicly criticizing their government.

That has rigorously NOTHING to do with the normal operation of companies that do not engage with politics in China, which is what I was talking about before you barged in.

Also, it is the US that has been kidnapping people into unmarked vans and arresting people at airport, detaining them for however long, and deporting them to countries that aren't their own for as little as having a meme criticizing the current US regime.

So really, which one is the dictatorship?

The sooner we stop seeing China as enemies, the better. We need them more than ever now that the US has decided to go full mask off.

BYD is free to operate as it wishes in China, along with several millions of other companies. And their products are good.

[-] iii@mander.xyz 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

that do not engage with politics in China

There's no such thing. A person nor company can unilaterally decide "not to engage with politics", as politics engages with them in thousands of ways. The best they can do is self-censorship, which, even when successfull, is in itself a form of political engagement.

which one is the dictatorship?

False dichotomy 🙄

We need them more than ever now that the US has decided to go full mask off.

Who's "we" in this case? And why would they "need" someone now, because of stuff in the US?

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[-] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Watch the RichRebuilds review of Chinese EVs. There is a lot of "make it look good" in their engineering, like massive painted brake calipers...that are a single piston. The cars probably aren't as quality as other EVs, but the prices, specs, and niche features are very compelling. I'd definitely consider one in the US. Anything that isn't a Tesla or a massive crossover would be great.

[-] 3dcadmin@lemmy.relayeasy.com 15 points 1 day ago

Here in the UK Musk is just seen as an idiot. Some decent European EV solutions coming along but the Chinese cars are so much better value than Tesla OR the main European makes. Couldn't happen to a nicer megalomaniac and as a plus I love seeing the monthly SpaceX explosions

[-] AlexLost@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

It's not just the UK that sees his as an idiot. The world sees him this way, and that's because he is one. Also an egomaniac.

[-] hark@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago

Looking forward to Tesla reporting Q2 earnings next month. I assume another round of disastrous numbers paired up with some vaporware distraction. Perhaps they can keep this charade going, but at some point reality will catch up.

[-] HappyRedditRefugee@lemm.ee 6 points 1 day ago

Is gonna go up, Elon said they'll have full autonomous this year! /s

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[-] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 198 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

USA could have spent money developing an electrified economy but the republicans are focusing on bringing back coal mining and reshoring shoe manufacturing instead.

This admin has set the USA back 100 years.

ETA - what I mean is that China is rampaging on in electrification, developing manufacturing skills, infrastructure, and design/engineering/technology around renewables and electrification. Europe is thinking about it but not going crazy to the extent China is, because legacy - China doesn’t have 100 years of cars and 150 years of trains; they’re building new. USA meanwhile is actively regressing under Republican policies.

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this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
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