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[-] Humanius@lemmy.world 146 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

After Trump was elected and inaugurated, Signal has finally been gaining some steam here in the Netherlands.

It's still an American company, so it's not ideal. But it's still significantly better better than letting a tech giant like Facebook have control over the most commonly used chat app.

WhatsApp needs to go and Signal is the most likely way in which we can achieve that. We can worry about the American elephant in the room later.

[-] viking@piefed.ca 41 points 1 month ago

There is threema, a Swiss messenger that gained some popularity earlier since they had end to end encryption before whatsapp.

Unfortunately the source code is not open (even though they do get annual audits with public reports), and the client costs 3 EUR or something (once).

[-] Humanius@lemmy.world 50 points 1 month ago

Yeah, but Threema has basically no momentum behind it at all at this point.
I'm putting my social capital behind the option that currently stands the most chance of beating out Whatsapp

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[-] philpo@feddit.org 27 points 1 month ago

And Switzerlands records in terms of privacy sadly is far worse than most people think - even with the last attack being repelled.

Matrix (preferably on a non-matrix.org instance) currently is the preferable non US and privacy friendly way.

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[-] RollForInitiative@feddit.org 10 points 1 month ago

They also offer Threema Libre on F-Droid for all us folks who degoogled their phone

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[-] hansolo@lemmy.today 98 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's ethical because it runs on donations and has a non-profit business model.

Meta likely spends at least $1 billion a year running WhatsApp.

Please donate to Signal if you use it.

[-] Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works 65 points 1 month ago

I like Signal. I even got all my close friends and family on it, specifically to message me because I won't use whatsapp. The PIN reminders are annoying it enough to be legitimately holding it back from mass appeal imho

[-] Typotyper@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 month ago
[-] bimbimboy@lemmy.eco.br 16 points 1 month ago

The fact that it's opt-out is already a reason to push people away from the app

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[-] mathemachristian 44 points 1 month ago

Proprietary servers is still proprietary software

[-] Humanius@lemmy.world 109 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Don't let perfection stand in the way of good enough
It may not be the holy grail, but moving away from Meta-owned Whatsapp is already a pretty significant improvement

[-] rfr_Foglia@feddit.it 15 points 1 month ago

I agree and it would be much better if people would use Signal instead of WhatsApp, but I think there's still one problem.

Due to how messaging platforms work, every time you switch you lose pretty much everything (messages, media, etc) This makes switching very hard even for a nerd like me, because if Signal is not "perfect" it means that I will have to switch again at some point and lose everything again.

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[-] mintiefresh@lemmy.ca 42 points 1 month ago

Wish more of my contact list would switch over to Signal. It's nearly the same. I don't see why it's so hard for some people to just start using Signal instead of WhatsApp.

Oh well.

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[-] cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone 35 points 1 month ago

signal not being on fdroid is a strike against them

[-] qaz@lemmy.world 37 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It is though. I currently use Signal installed through F-Droid. You just need to add a separate repository.

[-] timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works 28 points 1 month ago

Fair. There is Molly on fdroid if you like.

[-] AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today 14 points 1 month ago

Molly is great.

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[-] Nima@leminal.space 30 points 1 month ago

signal requires a phone number and won't even allow you to send sms to those that aren't on signal.

its better, but still not great.

[-] TeddE@lemmy.world 27 points 1 month ago

It used to function as a fallback SMS/MMS messenger (like how iMessage does) but when Google started moving to convert Android from SMS/MMS to RCS Signal made the hard decision to cut the fallback functionality rather than follow Google's new framework.

I personally hope once the dust settles Signal designs a RCS engine and restores the fallback functionality.

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[-] falynns@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago

Humans are too stupid to switch from convenience to slightly less convenience even if they get privacy for free. Any amount of discomfort is too much and changing an app is basically death.

[-] Kevnyon@lemmy.world 22 points 1 month ago

I wish I could do this, but trying to convince people to ditch an app they've never had problems with and where they all have their family, friends, work groups and school groups already mashed together, how do you convince them? Its not even about me convincing my friends or family, its about everyone else doing the same and when everyone has so many contacts in WhatsApp, that number starts to snowball real quick. Its just not feasible to try and explain this to someone who literally doesn't care. I mean even though I myself know what Meta is and how Zuck is complete asshole, I still can't switch off of WhatsApp because nobody I know is on Signal and I'd just be alone there. What's the point? WhatsApp is pretty much the first app anyone installs on their phone (regardless of platform), they're not gonna switch now.

[-] orgrinrt@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago

Well, just an anecdote:

I simply deleted my WhatsApp and moved to signal. Just did it.

People installed the app, at least the ones that cared about staying in touch. Which was most everyone I cared about staying in touch with. A few of my friend groups also moved the group chat to signal, though all of them do have other ones with the people who didn’t care enough to move too, but I hear it isn’t that big a deal, they had multiple groups before and will have in future, doesn’t really feel like any extra hassle they say.

It’s been fine. No problems. I’ve had more trouble trying to explain to my extended family why I’m no longer posting on instagram. Those I never had in WhatsApp either back in the day, so they “stayed in touch” by watching my pictures I suppose. But I just consistently tell people they can reach me always via signal or plain old sms.

I guess the biggest thing to be scared about would be fomo for most, but I don’t really care enough, I’ve got so much going on already that it’s more of a blessing that I don’t have to be involved in every conversation or meme sharing or whatever.

It really gets so easy after simply switching. Just do it and that’s that. The people worth anything come with you, it’s just another app and another group chat or personal chat. Most already have discord and the meta messenger whatever its name is these days anyway. I know zero people with only one messenger/chat app and unsplintered groups across them. It’s not a big chore, and if it is, there’s always sms.

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[-] Armand1@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago

The exit plan from WhatsApp is quite simple. Start by installing Signal and setting it up – it takes only a couple of minutes. Then, resume any WhatsApp conversations on Signal if that person is already a Signal user. If they are not, then switch to regular text messaging and gently suggest to that person to switch over to Signal.

Sadly for me, this doesn't really work for some relatives as

  • They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
  • Some are so tech un-savvy that even installing a new app by themselves is too much.

All I can do for those relatives is to leave WhatsApp installed but take away basically every permission I can, including running in the background.

[-] NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip 10 points 1 month ago

They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant

Signal is free just like whats app. For text, calls, and video. So that isn't a problem.

I too have friends and family in different countries, one of which is crazy about whatsapp. I simply tell them this is how we are going to do things now, and walk them through it. It is not hard. If they can't do it, well then we don't need to communicate this way. Whatsapp is not an option. It is that simple.

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[-] network_switch@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 month ago

Ya it’d be better if it didn’t require a phone number but it’s a solid start as it’s build up a user base over the past decade. Matrix is good but I know far less people that use it and it’ll be a long time of growing with nerdy/geeky communities before it starts getting more mainstream users

[-] mio@lemmy.mio19.uk 12 points 1 month ago
[-] tux0r@feddit.org 12 points 1 month ago
[-] philpo@feddit.org 38 points 1 month ago

Overdramatic blog post,sorry. I can't stand the whole "fremmium" crybabies that then literally recommend the next freemium or "non transparent funding model" service.... And don't understand the fundamental difference between the Protocol and one of its implementations.

Matrix as a protocol is solid and is used far beyond the Matrix messenger. (e.g. the French and German governmental messenger, the German healthcare messenger,various armies,etc.) With a lot of commits coming from there - but not enough funding,that is definitely an issue.

The current issue with Freemium is solely limited to the matrix.org instance. There are hundreds of federated instances out there that aren't Freemium and won't have the need to go that way as they are funded differently.(e.g. the Lemmy Instance I am currently writing from, feddit - we are financed through other means) As they are federated it doesn't matter - and honestly, I personally tend to see this as a good thing - it will lead users away from matrix.org towards other instances, making the whole network more reliable and decentralized.

There are two other issues that are relevant, though: The way the foundation is run is not ideal, definitely - there are and were issues and I am not happy with some management decisions, but at least they are getting somewhat better recently (government board). The whole protocol does not evolve as fast as it should be and this is an issue,especially as a it also affects bug fixing. As an executive for a (much smaller) company myself I see management issues and infighting due to lack of leadership within the foundation and I am not happy with that. The second issue is Element as a company that does things companies do - focus on making money. This in theory would be a good thing if Element would send enough money AND effort upstream to seriously bring the whole project forward. For a long time this seemed to be the case,but licensing issues and the "stale" development off Element X(Matrix 2.0) has me questioning that as well - but recent changes show us hope in that regard. We also need to carefully reconsider if element is keeping too much"closed" source code for monetized features and what influence VC really has. In conclusion: We need better leadership for Matrix,more transparency and more funding.

The good news is: It doesn't mattter too much - if the current foundation fucks up and goes belly up it is not the end of Matrix - the protocol is decentralized enough and the licencing of the core components permissive enough for another (better?) foundation to start over. There are dozends of clients available and we have alternative servers available by now.

The funding part nevertheless is my major pet peeve here. All around Europe governments try to get rid of US tech - and use Matrix protocol based products. But they hardly if ever fund that. If Germany, France, Poland and Luxembourg (the big users) would give 5€ per year for each client they implement all issues with funding would be gone, Matrix 2.0 would be available in a few months, VC could be pushed out of elements AND they could mandate more transparency.

The issue with funding is relevant for all NGOs and especially in tech. Running servers costs a fuckton of money.

Signal has a respectable amount of backers but is a centralized protocol and when Trump does something shady moneywise their infrastructure,money and possibly even people will be gone within 24 hours.

Threema has a more sustainable business model but Switzerland is,well, difficult, in terms of privacy and intelligence services overreach, especially towards traffic pointing to foreign servers or hosts.

Revolt is a centralized service with no federation,limited selfhosting capabilities,with unclear funding(we are waiting for a financial transparency report for ages now).

Polyproto is still not quite there feature wise and funding, etc. is unclear.

Delta Chat is indeed an option but has massive technical limitations.

That leaves XMPP as the sole big competition if you want non-centralised, non-US based, privacy friendly, messaging.

[-] Jaberw0cky@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

My wishlist is an app which is not linked to a phone number, is multi platform and has a web app. It should be none US and open source. That isn’t too many requirements and yet nothing seems to full fit the bill? Anyway good luck trying to get school parent’s groups to use something other than WhatsApp.

[-] raynethackery@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

TIL I have no family I care to keep in touch with and I have no friends.

[-] eodur@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

How about Delta Chat? At least as secure as Signal, open source, and decentralized.

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[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Don't ask me for a phone number and I'll use it.

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[-] herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I don't use Signal because they don't release the app in F-Droid. Signal devs refuse to release the app outside of Google Play Store, which is very evil.

[-] laughingsquirrel@discuss.tchncs.de 24 points 1 month ago

You can download the APK once from the website, after that it updates automatically. https://signal.org/android/apk/

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[-] AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You can use Molly from F-Droid. They even have a full FOSS version that you can set up a self hosted notification socket for, to avoid Google Firebase.

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this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2025
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