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What did Musk and Trump fall out over? (lazysoci.al)

submitted 5 days ago by LadyButterfly@lazysoci.al to c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world

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Other than them both being dickheads

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[-] theneverfox@pawb.social 66 points 5 days ago

I think Musk is stupider than people realize. He's a true believer in his grandpa's technocracy movement (plus eugenics), and so he thought "if I was in control for just a few weeks everyone would realize they should just let me run the world"

Then, he got practically unlimited power, and everyone got mad at him. He seemed genuinely surprised that people weren't praising him for his sacrifices (such as selflessly condemning hundreds of thousands of people to death)

Then he showed he was useless at buying elections, and the right dropped him

He followed Trump around for a while quietly, probably spending most of it in a k-hole. Then Trump officially broke up with him, even if he glazed Elon on the way out

Then the narcissism kicked back in. Maybe his "friends" rubbed it in, maybe his dad called him a disappointment who fumbled the chance of a lifetime, maybe the threat of legal ramifications made him bitch out - but whatever happened, Elon woke up one day and decided "it wasn't my fault, Trump and Co fucked me"

I think Elon is actually concerned about the bill to some degree, because it does stretch our debt and spending to levels that could potentially pop the global economy. I think he does feel disrespected that his work at Doge is being rolled back and everyone is distancing themselves from him. I think he is upset that he spent all this money to buy the presidency, and got a bad ROI

But ultimately, Elon is a fucking idiot with a huge ego. He didn't understand what game he was playing, and so when he lost he started blaming others

And it's beautiful. Possibly the greatest crash out in history

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago

The bill ends the carbon offset income that's the largest portion of Tesla's income. Combined with their sales being in the toilet because everybody hates him, and the company very well may not survive.

[-] psud@aussie.zone 9 points 5 days ago

Regarding "Elon is stupid" I don't agree. He has shown exceptionally good technical skills, he has no people skills, he's worse than useless at presenting himself to the public in general

I don't think he engineered much at either Tesla or SpaceX, but he had an excellent understanding of what they were doing - he could answer all the (non-ITAR, non trade secret) questions Tim Dodd asked in his tour of Starbase. When model 3 was new Randall Monroe did and assessment of the vehicle, Musk took the criticism and the next version fixed all the identified problems.

I would say Trump is the opposite. Actually low IQ, poorly educated, but good at talking to the population at large

[-] theneverfox@pawb.social 24 points 5 days ago

No, he's shown zero technical skills across his lifetime. He literally has no skill as a programmer or as an engineer

Have you ever seen a kid with a model car that can rattle off the horsepower and acceleration speed? That's what Elon is. He doesn't understand these things - he buys companies and learns the spec sheet because he's a fanboy with too much money.

Elon couldn't code his way out of a paper bag. He couldn't put together a model rocket with instructions on the box. What he can do is memorize a bunch of statistics he doesn't understand on a fundamental level

[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago

While I have not reviewed a lot of Musk speak, let alone armed with enough to credibly review his commentary, but based on my own field and "respected technical leaders" that interview with customers and the press, with broad acknowledgement that they really know their stuff...

Most of them I've known can sound very confident and credible while saying completely incorrect stuff. No one tries to correct them because them being actually correct doesn't add value and trying to fix that is more trouble than it's worth much of the time. The people paying attention don't know well enough to recognize they are wrong.. usually...

Upon occasion my company throws one of these "geniuses" at a customer that actually knows what they are doing. Then I got to see our executive basically try to gaslight the audience when they challenged his competency. The sales people has to last minute pull in the actual technical people to try to repair our image after the customer interacted with the executive..

Now one would think, clearly, after such an embarrassment, surely the company learned to field the actual technical experts to deal with technical questions... But no, for every smart customer that is turned off by that executive, there's 10 more clients that don't know any better and respond so much better to his baseless confidence than actual competent discussion. Also, those 10 suckers will also get suckered into more high margin stuff versus the smart customer, that will be really good at getting the most cost effective products, with low margin and skipping the pointless addions.

[-] theneverfox@pawb.social 3 points 4 days ago

That's dead on. Great description, that's exactly the dynamic he had with the public

The only difference is people who saw through the facade were happy to let him hype up good technologies.. well, at least until we found out he's always been a fascist at least

[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Yes, as long as you were on the side that benefits from success, it was better to leave things "simple" and not challenge the incorrect stuff out loud you aren't going to "well actually.." the "expert" if it risks your job and/or the wrong stuff isn't too important or too hard to overcome when the rubber meets the road.

Still, sitting in a room or otherwise being a party to a conversation where an executive is constantly being confidently incorrect and still praised as a smart expert likely making 7 figures is maddening.

[-] theneverfox@pawb.social 7 points 4 days ago

Ever listen to a kid with a model car rattle off horsepower, 0-60 time, engine displacement, and other facts?

The child does not understand what that means, not really. They might know the dictionary definitions for those words, but the kid doesn't have the context to understand what it means in a useful way. They just memorize the stats because they're neat.

That's what Elon is.

Elon is a trained programmer who doesn't understand code. It's painfully apparent he has no understanding of what he's talking about once he starts talking on a subject you know intimately... Dude is actually an idiot. An absolute joke. His thinking is laughably superficial

He's also pretty terrible with people, but he sold the "awkward nerd" persona very well. He doesn't know what he's talking about - but he knows how to make it seem like he just can't properly express himself to a layman

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[-] LordGimp@lemm.ee 6 points 5 days ago

It's funny to watch Ted Faro play out IRL lmao

[-] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 3 days ago

When playing Forbidden West, I pretty quickly concluded that Faro was based on him. And the Zeniths were very much Bezos and friends.

[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 80 points 5 days ago

Publicly, Elon said Trump’s bill was full of pork and would increase spending and debt by a lot.

Voters on the right were already waking up to how shitty Trump’s bill was, and Musk just used his megaphone to let even more of Trump’s base know that it sucked.

Privately, Musk is probably pissed that Trump’s bill didn’t help his companies. These are two greedy assholes. It all comes down to money and ego at the end of the day.

[-] LadyButterfly@lazysoci.al 18 points 5 days ago

That's a really good explanation thanks! Can you ELI5 why the bill sucked?

[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 61 points 5 days ago

The bill give massive tax cuts to the extremely rich, and it attempts to pay for part of that by:

kicking many low income and disabled people off of federally funded health insurance
closes poor rural hospitals that depend on Medicaid money
cutting subsidies for manufacturing jobs that make emerging green tech, like EVs
food and child care assistance will disappear for many poor families.
and there is a bunch of weird little sneaky things hidden in it that people hope don’t get noticed because the bill is 200+ pages

When you do the math, the rich will get a lot of money, the very poor will have lose money, the and middle class will break even but many will be put on unemployment.

And it costs an extra $4,000,000,000,000, which is fucking bonkers.

[-] LadyButterfly@lazysoci.al 20 points 5 days ago

This sounds ludicrously bad. What are the perceived benefits? How is it being sold to peopl? It sounds abysmal

[-] butwhyishischinabook@lemmy.world 33 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

A lot of people still buy into trickle down economics despite consistently not working for the several decades we have tried it and reflexively support tax cuts for the wealthy. A lot of those same people also think that kicking people off of what they consider to be "welfare" will somehow magically result in those people quickly becoming employed, thinking that the reason they aren't employed is because they aren't facing serious enough consequences for unemployment.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 16 points 5 days ago

A lot of people still buy into trickle down economics despite consistently not working for the several decades we have tried it

It has literally never worked, even over a century ago when it was called "horse and sparrow economics," and it never will.

[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago

I guess the big argument is that giving a bunch of money to the wealthy will stimulate the economy. Although, that’s an argument that many nations, including the US, have 50 years of data on, and there isn’t much to support that argument. Trickle down economics hasn’t been shown to work.

I also, if you’re in the camp that doesn’t believe in climate change and or thinks poor people are poor because of character flaws, then you probably like this thing. Or if you’re a wealthy person who donated a lot of money to republican politicians, you probably like this thing, because it’s a return on investment.

It’s not particularly great. Many people on the right only voted for it because they’re afraid Trump will primary them, and end their political careers, if they oppose.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago

Although, that’s an argument that many nations, including the US, have 50 years of data on, and there ~~isn’t much~~ is nothing to support that argument. Trickle down economics ~~hasn’t been shown to work~~ has been conclusively shown to not work.

FTFY

[-] 10001110101@lemm.ee 3 points 4 days ago

From the people I know, who do depend on these programs and like Trump, they don't believe they will have their benefits reduced. The think the other people, "taking advantage" of the system will be kicked off. It's being sold as reducing fraud and abuse. The right-wing has been pushing this framing for decades, and many people have bought into it.

[-] LadyButterfly@lazysoci.al 2 points 4 days ago

Yes that's true. And most people agree fraudulently claiming benefits is wrong

[-] 10001110101@lemm.ee 3 points 4 days ago

Yeah, that's how they sell it. Problem is, studies have shown the fraud in these programs isn't much of an expense, in the broader context. And, Trump has granted clemency to Lawrence Duran, who stole $205M from Medicare, which tells you they don't really care about that. These programs are actually pretty efficient, and spending funds to investigate small-time fraud would often cost more than just letting it happen. It's not like tons of people wish to be on our shitty social programs that don't even supply enough help for the people that absolutely need it.

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[-] zombyreagan@lemm.ee 16 points 5 days ago

Normal people hate it because it's gutting things like Medicare, and GOP ghouls hate it because it doesn't cut enough and will add to the deficit by a lot

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[-] percent@infosec.pub 29 points 5 days ago

Fun fact: This isn't the first time they've worked together and broke up. IIRC, Trump choose Musk for some advisory role during his first term (I don't remember what, specifically). Musk resigned because Trump withdrew from the Paris Climate Accord.

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[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 16 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

40% of Tesla income comes from offsets paid by ICE companies.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-profit-could-shrink-under-trump-policies-jpmorgan-2025-1

Trump is killing that.

[-] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 days ago

This is just Trump's M.O. No reason required.

[-] LadyButterfly@lazysoci.al 3 points 3 days ago

Fair point

[-] cecilkorik@lemmy.ca 39 points 5 days ago

I'm putting 50/50 odds that it's an intentional, theatrical distraction from other more important things that are going on, or it's just the inevitable outcome of two malignant narcissist sociopaths being in the same room together too often. If they quickly kiss and make up I'll lean more towards the former than the latter.

[-] LadyButterfly@lazysoci.al 34 points 5 days ago

I've found criminals and high up business people are never friends, just friends when it suits them. They'll have HUGE fallouts then be ok with each other when they need each other. Just IME

[-] Zarxrax@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago

Nah, musk has said some stuff that you don't come back from. There is no way Trump says "eh, he accused me of being a pedophile but it's all good".

[-] cecilkorik@lemmy.ca 9 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

That's exactly my point. If they do in a few days "come back from" that and are all buddy buddy again, then I think that indicates it was just a staged performance for show and distraction and none of it was real fighting. Suggests it was all just an act. (IF they do come back from it. Which remains to be seen)

Muskrat has already backed down from a few things he said in the "heat" of the argument, like that he was going to disassemble the Dragon capsules. So I wouldn't jump to your conclusion that they can't possibly "come back from" this, my point is just that if they do, it was probably all just an act to begin with because I agree if it's real, stuff was said that neither one of these vindictive sociopaths is likely to forget.

[-] Buske@lemmy.world 12 points 4 days ago

There is no fall out. They both are still getting exactly what they want. It is a ploy.

[-] Glide@lemmy.ca 23 points 5 days ago

While I am sure there are real, specific reasons that can be pointed to as "the reason," the real answer is that you can't put two narcissists in a room together and tell them they're on the same team. This always was the only possible outcome.

[-] charade_you_are@sh.itjust.works 18 points 5 days ago

It's also possible that this is just political theater designed to distract people

[-] thetrekkersparky@startrek.website 6 points 5 days ago

Also I think Tesla stock went up a bit since this whole thing started. Muskrat might just be trying to distance himself from Trump to save Tesla's sales numbers.

[-] Pulptastic@midwest.social 10 points 5 days ago

Have you heard the Tenacious D song “Two Kings”?

[-] LemmiChanga@programming.dev 5 points 4 days ago

“We don’t have to cognitive capacity to lead… ok we’ll do it”

[-] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 21 points 5 days ago

Other than them both being dickheads

Why do you think they need more than that?

[-] LadyButterfly@lazysoci.al 9 points 5 days ago

Fair point

[-] slazer2au@lemmy.world 20 points 5 days ago

The same thing that got them together. Money.

[-] LadyButterfly@lazysoci.al 10 points 5 days ago

Don't doubt that but do you know what exactly?

[-] slazer2au@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago

I doubt it is one thing but there is a bill on the floor about removing tax credits for EVs which would hit Tesla quite bad.

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[-] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 12 points 5 days ago

You ever see what happens when you put two narcissists in the same room? This is what happens.

[-] Libra@lemmy.ml 16 points 5 days ago

Musk feels like he bought a president and should own him outright, Trump feels like he's renting a timeshare on the oval office and Musk is taking up too much of his 'allotted' time.

[-] drmoose@lemmy.world 11 points 5 days ago

Because autocracy cannot sustain conflict of ideas. It was just a matter of time as every political scientist said 6 months ago.

[-] db2@lemmy.world 11 points 5 days ago

Neither one wanted to be top when nobody was watching.

[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 4 points 4 days ago

Wow. Reading the comments, it's amazing how uninformed people here are.

Read the news, folks.

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this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2025

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