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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by pineapplelover@lemm.ee to c/technology@lemmy.ml

A couple hours before I was on the edge of getting a Fairphone 5 but I read the specifications and didn't see 3.5 mm audio jack anywhere. So I thought to myself...why? The community has been requesting this for a couple years ago now so why not. They're already making money on the phone, they're really pushing for people to get their wireless headphones? Just add the headphone jack, shouldn't be too hard.

They said they're treating their workers fairly, sourcing from ethical sources, renewable claims, repairability claims, and supporting foss projects (they donated a fp4 to CalyxOS to support development). All of these are amazing, so adding a little headphone jack shouldn't be that hard in the grand scheme of all this.

*Add the headphone jack and I'll be happy to support and get a fp5.

https://calyxos.org/news/2022/02/25/device-support/

https://shop.fairphone.com/fairphone-5

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[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 56 points 1 year ago

They said they’re treating their workers fairly, sourcing from ethical sources, renewable claims, repairability claims, and supporting foss projects (they donated a fp4 to CalyxOS to support development). All of these are amazing, so adding a little headphone jack shouldn’t be that hard in the grand scheme of all this.

lol wtf

All of those things seem vastly more important than a headphone jack!

[-] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago

I'm not discounting their achievements but if they truly want eco friendly in mind then they would retain the headphone jack so people don't have to buy adaptors or get new wireless headphones they didn't want in the first place.

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[-] ghandi9@lemmy.meg.li 32 points 1 year ago

So I thought to myself…why?

Why? There are various arguments as to why the old audio jack standard is obsolete, but this discussion was essentially settled with the Fairphone 4, which was the first one that did not have a headphone jack. And they released a detailed article describing their reasoning..

https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/9836188988049-Audio-jack-3-5mm

The community has been requesting this for a couple years

The community? It's not as if Fairphone just willy nilly decided to get rid of the headphone jack, this was done with feedback from the community in mind.. Just because you are loud and passionate doesn't mean that your opinion is the only one that represents the community's.. As a fairphone user and "member of the community", I say fuck the 3.5 mm jack.. It's an ancient standard that was obsolete years ago,

And just to be clear, this isn't a discussion about wireless vs wired earbuds. You can have wired USB earbuds, you can even use your old 3.5 mm jack headphones with an adaptor. This is a discussion whether we should switch back to an ancient and inferior standard just because you are used to it..

Just add the headphone jack, shouldn’t be too hard.

And this entitled and wilfully ignorant attitude will make people take you even less seriously.. You can't "just add the headphone jack", decisions like that have an impact on all of the design of the device and have to be carefully evaluated.. You simply going "come on just do it, how hard can it be" will not convince anyone..

[-] blackkn1ght@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 1 year ago

The only ignorant answer i'm seeing is from yourself.

The headphone jack is an inexpensive small connector that offers far better quality than bluetooth does (i.e. lossless audio), is universal and is a really inexpensive feature to add to a device.

The ONLY reason it has been removed is to push the sales of wireless headphones and earbuds. Fairphone got rid of it and soon after started selling bluetooth devices. And you just bought the marketing. As for the usb adapters, those are an extra point of failure and easy to misplace.

For all the good things Fairphone did, this is a really shitty one. If Sony can keep the jack on all their devices, anybody can, and the rest are excuses.

You don't like the jack? You can just keep using bluetooth.

[-] lemann@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago

Their responses address commenters directly, with an apple-esque "you are doing it wrong" attitude, instead of focusing on the actual subject matter - the 3.5mm jack itself. It's not really a discussion, it's much more comparable to victim blaming and trolling 🤷‍♂️. People are looking for a discussion, not an attack thinly veiled as a "solution". No point engaging IMO.

Regarding the actual topic though, I'm fully in agreement with you.

Here's why I don't feel as if bluetooth or dongles are an appropriate replacement: https://lemmy.one/comment/2684726

Since then I've also realised driver & codec support will slowly become a big issue as we move forward with dongles and bluetooth headphones, especially for people who prefer to keep their devices for longer

[-] blackkn1ght@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago

Some people will just swallow propaganda, and defend corporations even going against their own interests.

To be clear, i'm not against bluetooth audio, heck i even have a set of high end Jabra earbuds, but those are not a substitute for my AKG k702 or my Audio Technica M40x. Having an audio jack is about having an option, and we know companies are lying through their teeth because somebody managed to add an audio jack to an iPhone without losing any functionality at all.

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[-] ghandi9@lemmy.meg.li 5 points 1 year ago

The headphone jack is an inexpensive small connector

It's still an unnecessary addition to modern smartphones that has an impact on design, etc..

offers far better quality than bluetooth does

And once again, you ignore what I wrote in my comment and try to turn this discussion into a discussion about "wires vs wireless/bluetooth" when it's obviously not..

As for the usb adapters, those are an extra point of failure and easy to misplace.

If using an adapter is too much of a hassle for you, get a wired USB headphone.. It's funny, you pretend that the only viable options are either bluetooth or an obsolete standard. We already have a new standard.. We had it for decades now.. And it's already built into and used with virtually any modern smartphone. But no, because you are used to your old standard, you demand that the old standard is still used in addition to the new standard..

If Sony can keep the jack on all their devices

This isn't about what we could and couldn't do.. We could go back to using cassettes if we wanted to, there just isn't a good enough reason to do it as far as most people are concerned..

Look at your comment, you can't give me a good reason for your argument. Your only argument is "but it's not that much of a hassle" and "everyone used it in the past so we should continue using it"..

You don’t like the jack? You can just keep using bluetooth.

I can just use bluetooth, or I can just use USB. So can you.

But can you give me one argument why we should, in addition to having both bluetooth and USB interfaces on our smartphones, have an additional plug using a standard from the 1950s that we can ONLY use for audio when we already have to have a USB plug that can also be used for audio?

[-] blackkn1ght@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago

No, just because you say "it is obsolete" doesn't make it so.

Yes, i'll give you my argument. The headphone jack is an industry standard, has been for decades and will be for much more time. Audio equipment, recording interfaces, anything that has a minimum of quality standard uses wires and jacks.

The 3.5mm jack adds 0 latency and allows for much, MUCH, higher audio resolution and don't have to compress the audio before allowing you to hear it.

The usb plug is just a stupid cop out. It's not really a standard, is something that was born as an excuse. Why should i have a more fragile connector that has to rely on electronics when i can use a cable that i can fix myself if it breaks? Also, please point me in the directon of some high end headphones with a usb connector. And i mean high end, reference quality, not some brandless crap from amazon.

Because Fairphone are arguing in bad faith. If they were really concerned about repairabilty, they would have kept a reliable and easy to fix jack instead of selling overpriced bluetooth earbuds.

If anything, this whole ordeal is a constant reminder that corporations are not our friends, and that some people will somehow just blindly defend them.

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[-] ExLisper@linux.community 11 points 1 year ago

the old audio jack standard is obsolete

Funny you say this because I'm using one as I write this. Why? Because simply plugging in my headphones into the phone is way faster then connecting ones using bluetooth, because I just have pair of small cheap headphones in my backpack and because I wanted to listen to music now. Yes, I have BT headphones but those are big (over the ear headphones with big case) so I left them at home. Yes, I could get spare, small BT headphones but those are way more expensive and I would have to remember to charge them. Also, if I forget to bring headphones to work desktop support can give me a pair... with 3.5mm jack. So I'm also avoiding phones without a jack and it's not because I'm stubborn. It's because every now and then I still find myself using it. The day I stop using it I will be ready to get a phone without it.

[-] ghandi9@lemmy.meg.li 6 points 1 year ago

Funny you say this because I’m using one as I write this.

You using obsolete technology doesn't make it any less obsolete..

Because simply plugging in my headphones into the phone

Why do you keep trying to turn this discussion into a discussion of wireless vs wired? I'm not saying wires are obsolete, I'm saying the 3.5 mm standard is obsolete when it comes to modern smartphones because it's a standard from the literal 1950s (which is ultimately based on a standard from the 1800s)..

I don't have a 3.5 mm headphone jack, yet I can simply plug my wired headphones in using a wire too and just use it without bluetooth.. And I can use the same standard plug you too have in your phone already.. Why do we need an additional interface just for headphones when I can use the one that I already need to have in the first place?

[-] ExLisper@linux.community 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You using obsolete technology doesn’t make it any less obsolete…

obsolete (adjective) No longer in use.

It does actually. The fact that I can go to literally any electronics store and choose from dozens of different 3.5mm jack headphones, the fact that my laptop, my PC, my BT headphones and my phone all bought within last 2 years have 3.5mm jack interface literally proves that it's not obsolete, it's still in use. I would say that in the near future it will slowly become niche (jack interfaces will be in use in musical instruments for a very long time. find a entry level electric instrument with BT please) but it's definitely not obsolete. You're making things up.

Yes, with time more and more people will buy USB-C headphones, it will become a standard and dropping jack will not be an issue but the problem is phones makers, following Apples stupid idea, started doing it first. One of phone's functions is being a portable music player. Why start removing jack where they are used the most? I wouldn't complain if my BT headphones used USB-C for wired play, they came with non-standard cables anyway. I use my PC with BT headphones (almost) exclusively, I wouldn't care if it dropped the jack. People complain because with phones they are losing function they actually used, not some obsolete port no one was using any more.

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[-] And009@reddthat.com 11 points 1 year ago

How is it obsolete, I understand a lot of people not needing it but all Audiophile products still need a physical connection in the form of 2.5, 3.5 or 4.4mm jack. 3.5mm has been a standard for the longest time.

I'd rather have that instead of a additional adapter to connect my iems. Only benefit in my case was that it allowed me to use a balanced connection for the same added cost.

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[-] winter@slrpnk.net 30 points 1 year ago

Wireless earphones/headphones are more expensive and sometimes inconvenient. People defending companies say "you can get a pair of wireless buds for like 20 dollars" you can, but how much are they going to last and how shitty will they feel and sound? Even when buying them for a high price, their batteries will wear out. The worst thing is adding this port doesn't affect you in the slightest if you don't use wired headphones, so couldn't you just shut the fuck up if that's the case?

[-] falkerie71@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago

One thing people don't/forget to mention, is that the microphones in even earpods tier wired earphones will sound infinitely better than most mics in Bluetooth headphones, even in the multiple hundred dollar tier range.

Also, you won't be forced to go into crappy mono sound mode when on call using Bluetooth headphones. When I use BT headphones with my laptop, I almost always use the integrated mic on the laptop instead of the built in ones in the headphone due to this.

[-] CAPSLOCKFTW@feddit.de 4 points 1 year ago

That is just plain wrong. Phone calls are always mono. Also, audio quality via bluetooth can easily be as good as over wire, and many bt headphones have great microphones.

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[-] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago

There are arguments saying the headphone jack takes up too much space which could be made room for something else like a bigger battery and more components. To that I say to take a look at the iphone 6 or phones nowadays that still retain the headphone jack. Absolute disgrace that everybody has jumped off the cliff with Apple.

[-] ghandi9@lemmy.meg.li 9 points 1 year ago

Wireless headphones aren't the only available option.. There are USB earplugs and there are adapters. The only argument you have is "but I can't charge my phone while listening to music"..

[-] Dontfearthereaper123@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes but I have audiophile headphones that I used to be able to use on on my phone without needing a dongle which I lose and need to replace everytime I plug the headphones into something else Can u name a solution for this that doesn't involve replacing dongles constantly

[-] blackkn1ght@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago

It's useless to argue with this guy, he's just going around shouting that the audio jack is obsolete, doesn't even know what obsolete means and is just throwing a hissy fit.

He can't name a solution, it's just everyone's else problem that we want to use the better option.

[-] pm_me_some_serotonin@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 year ago

One thing that saddens me as someone from a third world country when I see people with that attitude and supporting the corporations' decisions, is that I see how much we are fucked and we don't matter at all.

Any earphone option besides the ones with the jack are more expensive, even USB ones. Wireless phones are much more expensive, and the ones we can afford become defective so fast.

It's also sad to see people telling how the common stuff around me is obsolete. Well, I get it, we're the global waste from a capitalist view, but it still hurts to see it in action. (I wonder how people around here would react if they knew that microusb is still widely used around here and a lot of people don't even have type c cables)

In the end, companies will do anything they want and people will support them blindly. I just hope my current phone lasts for a good while, because not only I can't afford a new one, but, if I can't get one with an audio jack, I will simply have to listen to anything aloud for a long time.

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[-] qtj@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago

I think there are even dongles that let you charge while listening to music.

[-] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

the headphone jack community is like the vegans of smartphones

[-] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

It's a "nice to have", but I'd never rule out buying a phone for it.

[-] NightOwl@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago

Not like people really can these days. Options get even narrower if people start putting in settings they need like good software support and unlockable bootloader. Despite the many options there isn't really a phone that doesn't have some sort of concession to it despite the increasing price points.

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[-] Vlhacs@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'll admit, it came off a bit whiny and Bluetooth hardware is admittedly very accessible these days, but Bluetooth does definitely add additional unnecessary hardware and for a no compromise company like fairphone, it does seem strange they decided to leave out the headphone jack

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You don't really need to make a post about not buying a produck ya know?

[-] meiko60@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 1 year ago

sony still retains headphone jack on their flagship phone

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[-] whodoctor11@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I have a few better (in my opinion) motives to why I am not getting any fair phone:

• There's not such a thing like ethical consume under capitalism.

• It isn't environmental good to change from a working phone to anything.

• The new costs above $600 and the old ones costs around $400. This is a bunch of money and here in my country is almost 2 monthly minimum wages, without taxes, of course.

So I am sticking with my old Samsung, thank you.

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

[-] miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

It isn't environmental good to change from a working phone to anything.

They keep saying that themselves, no one actually tries to sell you one if you have a phone already.

The most sustainable phone is the one you already have

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[-] ghandi9@lemmy.meg.li 7 points 1 year ago

There’s not such a thing like ethical consume under capitalism.

What's the conclusion of this claim? That we shouldn't consume anything at all? That it doesn't matter what we consume as it all is equally unethical?

Even if you believe that all consumption is unethical, there are still differences in impact and effect depending on what we consume and how much we consume.

It isn’t environmental good to change from a working phone to anything.

Of course not, but who is urging people to replace their new/working smartphone with a fairphone?

The new costs above $600 and the old ones costs around $400. This is a bunch of money

From a price/quality perspective, the fairphone has always been "bad".. You pay the price of a upper mid smartphone and get older mid tech. That's because the fairphone's main appeal is it's modularity and their focus on "sustainable" production, which of course has it's price.

If your main focus is price and affordability, the fairphone is a bad choice.

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[-] Nutteman@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

This was a reason to not buy a phone 4 years ago. It's a bit late to complain now.

[-] Stochastic@lemmy.ca 23 points 1 year ago

No, the need is still present. Headphone jacks are pretty essential still, wireless tech is not a replacement.

[-] SheeEttin@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Essential for what? Bluetooth used to be shit, but I've had very few issues with recent devices.

[-] Vlhacs@reddthat.com 9 points 1 year ago

Bluetooth means a wireless bud/headphone, which means batteries and extra hardware to support Bluetooth and DAC, and an extra cable and charging adapter, and maybe an extra case. When it could all be driven by a simple headphone jack instead.

[-] MudMan@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

Bluetooth still lags. To this day. Don't ask me why or how, given it's the year of our lord 2023, but I can tell there is lag in most bluetooth headsets even in video content, let alone games.

So yeah, I have a Sony Xperia 1 IV, which not only has the headphone jack but forward facing stereo speakers and no notch or camera punch-hole. To my knowledge it's the very last flagship phone with that specific feature set.

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[-] noddy@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago

TLDR: Long rant about modern smart phones.

I've concluded that it is impossible to get a new phone that has the features I want. Some phone manufacturer always seems to arbitrarily declare useful features/form factors obsolete, maybe replaces it with some new gimmick and gets the hype machine going so all the other manufacturers do the same in fear of becoming irrelevant.

I just wish that some day some company is going to create a smart phone with a reliable fingerprint reader on the back again where it is reachable by fingers on BOTH the left and right hand. Or that some manufacturer will create a phone with a smaller screen than 6 inches. Or god forbid a normal aspect ratio like 16:9 instead of the ridiculously long lightsabers they're making now. Then maybe it would be possible to get it out of my pocket while sitting down. Missing headphone jack is just a drop in the ocean IMO. There are so many other annoyances that I didn't use to have, but now is an issue with modern smart phones.

If I got the chance to dictate what the manufacturers should do. I would tell them to stop. The camera is good enough. Make it smaller and not protruding out the back of the phone so much. The SOC is fast enough. Make it more power efficient instead of chasing for the next GHz. The screen is large enough, just stop. If I wanted a larger screen I would use a tablet. Do some damn QA. Test the main functionality of a phone, which is communication, not game benchmarks, not who can take the prettiest picture of the moon. Is it possible to take the phone out of the pocket without accidentally hanging up on whoever is calling you? Is it possible to send and receive to/from SMS/MMS groups? Does the fingerprint reader actually work or does it just say "sorry too many tries" every time you take the phone out of the pocket before even touching the fingerprint reader?

Just had to get that out of my system :P

[-] fubo@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Headphone jacks are not little. They take up a huge amount of board space on a device that people want to be small and light. They're also fragile and they open up a big hole for crud to get in.

[-] NightOwl@lemmy.one 16 points 1 year ago

Never had those problems of the phones with headphone jacks I've used. Feels like an exaggeration of problems being made like an infomercial.

[-] ElleChaise@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

Cut to black & white footage of a blonde suburban mom with her hand stuck inside a headphone jack. "Does THIS ever happen to you?"

[-] Synthead@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Every one of your points have been a solved problem for a while. We had small, light, durable, and even waterproof connectors before Apple called removing them "courage" (it was to sell more wireless headphones), and people with monetary incentives started to remove them, too.

[-] NightOwl@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago

I think the biggest argument against headphone jack taking up space is the existence of the Samsung Ultra with the Spen. Samsung has an excuse for the Ultra not having a headphone jack with the space dedicated to the Spen. But, most phones don't have a built in stylus, so what's the excuse for them. Not like phones have gotten tinier. How is the spen a technological possibility, but headphone is being made to be some technological difficultly that is more difficult to overcome?

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[-] cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 year ago

I've never had a headphone jack break and I've used the jacks on some of my devices almost daily for 10+ years.
I have had to replace several USB jacks in that time span though.

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[-] jimmydoreisalefty@lemmus.org 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Edit: forgot ewaste link, added dates

Always great to be cautious of corporations and what PR they say until proven otherwise.

At the end of the day profit is the goal of corporations to a certain point.

We decide what we want to support, if they don't have what you want then you do not buy it.

Louis Rossmann videos on subject:

Fairphone thoughts & commentary with Louis Rossmann [Oct 11, 2021]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhLtyrRwGcg

The fairphone reduces ewaste - by removing the headphone jack.... [Sep 15, 2022]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRdL0StldJM

Why I was wrong about fairphone [Jan 3, 2023]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAogtqyN22M

edit: words and sentence

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this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2023
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