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[-] audaxdreik@pawb.social 92 points 2 weeks ago

The article focuses a lot on the security of the boot process, but there's no reason the TPM can't be used for DRM as well (as an example, https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5283799). It's correct when it points out the locked down nature of consoles and phones.

We could conceivably be in for a future where Windows refuses to run code that's not validated even after the OS boots. Or where it sees pirated software on the system and refuses to function in some manner until the software is removed/corrected to its liking.

There are so many possibilities here and all of them are bad.

  • Forced online accounts so Microsoft always knows when/where you login
  • Stored encryption keys so Microsoft could theoretically provide access to any computer the government requests
  • Telemetry already reporting god only knows what metrics about what and how you use your software
  • Forced AI that literally watches everything you do on your screen storing it in a known location making for a valuable target and also potentially/likely being used to create more telemetry and insights into your habits
  • Eventual full control over your hardware by enforcing "trusted platform" restrictions

It's so fucking brazen I'm gobsmacked. As an elder Millennial, I get it, I can already hear most of you tallying in your head if having to care about your OS is gonna be the final straw . This is no longer a nerdy request to please use Linux, this is a five alarm fire. Add to all this how much Microsoft is in bed with the US government and potential issues with all that on the horizon and I really, truly believe it's time to switch, for your own good.

Please. Even if you're not going to run out and install Linux tomorrow, you need to start mentally preparing yourself for the inevitability of the task. Get yourself accustomed to the idea and when you're ready to dip your toes in, just know how many resources are out there for you.

And to the Linux community out there, there are going to be a lot of newcomers who don't have the technical skills to undertake this and enjoy/appreciate this in the same way as you do. Be kind to them, the need for us to support each other has never been greater. Please.

[-] Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world 50 points 2 weeks ago

DRM is already the primary purpose of trusted compute if you read shareholder meeting transcripts; security is a marketing side effect.

[-] audaxdreik@pawb.social 29 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Ya boy Richard Stallman agrees and has been saying this for years (although this article is more recentish), https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.en.html

“Treacherous computing” is a more appropriate name, because the plan is designed to make sure your computer will systematically disobey you. In fact, it is designed to stop your computer from functioning as a general-purpose computer. Every operation may require explicit permission.

As of 2022, the TPM2, a new “Trusted Platform Module”, really does support remote attestation and can support DRM. The threat I warned about in 2002 has become terrifyingly real.

Actual, honest to god reasons to upgrade to Windows 11 are already vague and questionable. Your average user probably doesn't even see any particular reason and only perceives the nuisance of it. But it's hard to fully close your iron fist around a platform when TPM enablement is so sparse in the consumer space. So what better way to do it than a mandatory OS upgrade with it as a system requirement and assure all (or a vast majority of) systems align at once?

Of course there are ways for stubborn users to skirt those requirements, but that misses the primary point of Trusted Computing. While the OS may baseline function to some degree, there's no telling what functionality may be crippled by not being in a trusted state. EDIT: For example, this could easily tie into games with anti-cheat such that they will refuse to run on Windows 11 unless TPM is enabled.

I don't know the future any better than anyone else, I'm just trying to read the winds at the moment. I suspect they may not try to pull the entire trap closed all at once and that Windows 11 may continue to more or less function as we've seen past iterations. But the pieces will be in place by then and it's only a matter of time before some greedy exec gives the word .....

[-] LedgeDrop@lemm.ee 23 points 2 weeks ago

I suspect they may not try to pull the entire trap closed all at once and that Windows 11 may continue to more or less function as we've seen past iterations

Microsoft will be taking a page from Google playbook. Google has be gradually reducing the "openness" of their android platform. They now have these "security checks" enforced on android. Meaning that it's trivial for an application to determine if the phone a "genuine android" or not.

This'll trickle into webbrowser too (if it's not already in browsers like chrome). It's only a matter of time before web pages will be able to determine if they're running on a "secure OS" and fail to run. It'll start out with your banking website, then expand to shopping websites, ultimately every page will enforce it ("oh, I see you have an unauthorized browser plug in installed. We care about your security, therefore we won't run. Please restore your device to it's secure defaults.")

This future is so horrible and Linux with its 4% market share won't change anything.

[-] audaxdreik@pawb.social 8 points 2 weeks ago

Agreed.

And what's particularly galling about this is that it's never made any sense to me. Are you telling me an Android app, on compromised hardware or otherwise, could send malformed data that would for instance deposit $1M into my bank account? That doesn't sound like an issue of local security. An app is just a frontend, all validation would still be through the banking infrastructure.

[-] DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I've been daily-driving Linux for over a decade at this point so you don't need to convince me, and I'll just spin up a Windows VM for things aren't picky about baremetal OS installs, but also don't play nice with WINE.

[-] plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org 56 points 2 weeks ago

I can hear the ‘just use Linux/BSD/etc.’ crowd already clamoring in the comments, and will preface this by saying that although I use Linux and BSD on a nearly daily basis, I would not want to use it as my primary desktop system for too many reasons to go into here.

Still though.

🐧

[-] thesmokingman@programming.dev 33 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

This rings a little hollow to me. Most of the people I know that understand Linux can quickly summarize why they might not use it as their daily driver (eg staying on macOS for graphics/video or staying on Windows for desktop Word/Excel). If you can’t summarize that quickly, it really makes me wonder if you really understand it. I’m not trying to No True Scotsman my way around it; I really don’t understand.

[-] lennivelkant@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 2 weeks ago

The reasons I personally know are "I have to use an app for work, there is no interoperable alternative, I have no leverage to replace that entire ecosystem and it won't run with wine" and "It's a company-issued device where I have no rights to change anything anyway." Combined, they make the reason that my work Laptop runs Win11, but my private PC is Linux through and through. I'd like to be able to use said app on my private PC too, but if it doesn't, no big deal.

[-] AliasVortex@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

Right? I tried to switch my primary computer (framework laptop) to Linux earlier this year and ended up going back to windows after I had absolute nightmares with my type-c KVM. Coupled with performance issues while gaming (and the absolute hassle of having to force games to use my graphics card). Add in whatever random issues I was getting trying to remote into other windows machines on my domain (for CAD work). My day job is in software engineering/ programming, so I'm not exactly a stranger to digging through documentation and fixing computer issues, but spending time fixing my computer instead of using it got old pretty quick.

Perfectly happy with Linux in my HomeLab and on my steamdeck though!

[-] thesmokingman@programming.dev 5 points 2 weeks ago

See‽ Easy explanation. I get it, absolutely reasonable issues, and one of several areas Linux just isn’t great with. “Too many issues to explain here” doesn’t click with me.

[-] littleomid@feddit.org 3 points 2 weeks ago
[-] aeternum 5 points 2 weeks ago

LibreOffice Write

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[-] Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 weeks ago

I just switched to Linux mint as a HTPC and it works great! Wine and Bottles bridged most of the gaps in software availability.

[-] melroy@kbin.melroy.org 6 points 2 weeks ago

Try winegui as well..

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[-] tal@lemmy.today 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I would not want to use it [Linux or BSD] as my primary desktop system for too many reasons to go into here.

https://twitter.com/MayaPosch/status/1809311467545735654

The Linux kernel not having a stable driver ABI is why Linux will never amount to anything outside of some embedded and server applications.


Maya Posch, author of the submitted article

I guess maybe that's their reason.

[-] GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 weeks ago

never

That tweet must be some kind of joke, because I don't know what to make of the many people who use Linux outside of embedded and server applications. And it doesn't even have to be my hearsay because the Steam Deck is exactly such a device.

In fact, I have a USB audio interface which I use near daily on Linux that has no driver support in modern Windows, because the vendor only provided beta support for Windows 7 as that OS was releasing. By Windows 8 it was unsupported. So the journey of that device is XP->Stable, Vista->Stable, 7->Unstable, 8+-> Non-functioning. If the driver ABI were so stable, why does my device not work on Windows anymore?

[-] gnuplusmatt@reddthat.com 25 points 2 weeks ago

what a bizare take to suggest hoping for ReactOS to mature before using Linux as daily driver. A lot of the current reactOS app compatibility depends on WINE implementation anyway.

[-] Patch@feddit.uk 11 points 2 weeks ago

ReactOS is a very fun project, but anyone expecting it to be a real useable OS is absolutely mad. It's been going for almost 30 years, and they're almost at the point of binary compatibility with Windows Server 2003...

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[-] muusemuuse@lemm.ee 24 points 2 weeks ago

Fucking Christ, you have choices people. If windows won’t meet your needs anymore, USE SOMETHING ELSE! Why do these people pretend there are no alternatives to windows?!

[-] TeddE@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago

There are no alternatives to Windows. You will join us. Embrace ☀️. Extend 🌈.Ȩ̷͙͙̺̰̦͊̏͜x̷̱̹̃t̶̡͉̍̋̌̿͗̈́͘í̴̡̼̱̫͚̺͙̉ň̶̛̮͠ģ̴̛̹̮͎̏̓u̷̢̢̜͊̆̈̉͐̑i̸̛̪͔̤̰͚̾͌̈̍͜ͅs̶̳̜͎͓͚̣̼̖͌̇̈́͊̌͋h̷͉̹̄͐̋̐͛🌚.

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[-] medem@lemmy.wtf 23 points 2 weeks ago

You can argue all you want about TPM and its 'security'. I ALWAYS thought that forcing users to use TPM 2+ hardware is planned obsolescence and nothing/no one will convince me otherwise.

The only thing affected users can and should do is to leave that PoS of an 'operating system'.

[-] _synack@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 weeks ago

I had a Windows 10 laptop that has a CPU not supported by Windows 11. It’s not e-waste, though. It just runs Ubuntu now.

[-] melroy@kbin.melroy.org 21 points 2 weeks ago

Install Linux already

[-] VagueAnodyneComments 20 points 2 weeks ago

yeah I'm over here trusting them to flood the scrap market with AM4 motherboards so I can build Linux machines

[-] mesamunefire@piefed.social 18 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

This is on top of potential tariffs which if enacted will make PC costs skyrocket. I feel like a lot of people are just going to skip the generation like they do with every other windows OS version. They will just keep windows 10 forever kinda like XP did back in the day.

[-] makyo@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

I'm pretty hesitant to find the time to install and learn Linux but I'm VERY hesitant to upgrade to Win11. I'm having trouble understanding what the selling point for it is over Win10. I feel like it used to be clear and exciting to upgrade but they've managed to make this feel sort of dreadful.

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[-] const_void@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 weeks ago

Where’s Microsoft’s Chief Sustainability Officer on this one? Too busy looking the other way on Copilot’s massive energy usage?

[-] atlien51@lemm.ee 13 points 2 weeks ago

Microsoft: BUT WE’RE THE MOST ECO CONSCIOUS COMPANY WE KNOW!!!

[-] const_void@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 weeks ago

You can’t say they’re not. The even have a Chief Sustainability Officer! /s

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[-] rikonium@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 weeks ago

DON'T TURN ON DISPLAYING SECONDS IN THE TASKBAR BECAUSE THAT'LL USE MORE ENERGY!

[-] amniote@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

Debian user here. All people have a doorkey. Some people have an alarm system as well. Infosec is about ' what do you have and what do you know '. So in principle TPM is a defencible argument. You should absolutely bail from MS products for different reasons. Like privacy. Your PC isn't yours anymore. Your NPU will reduce THEIR costs. Etc.

Don't enter Linux thinking its a drop in replacement. Go slow and do 'ships in the night'. Move data over to the new ship. Start embracing OSS on windows, it'll be familiar when you finally bail. G luck.

[-] Magister@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

It's not really a TPM problem, my Dell has TPM2.0 which is perfectly compatible with win11. My problem is the CPU (i5 6th gen) missing some stuff for modern device drivers or something, that is preventing me from upgrading win10 to win11.

Yes I dual boot MX Linux on it :)

[-] yarr@feddit.nl 7 points 2 weeks ago

I can't wait for the surge in cheap PCs available to buy and install Linux on. Please, Microsoft, lock down Windows more.

[-] Redx@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Because it's so hard to use Rufus and make a win 11 install that bypasses the tpm requirements.

[-] guyoverthere123@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

having to use hacks to get an operating system installed shouldn't be needed.

requiring a Microsoft account to use Windows also shouldn't even have been considered.

[-] Brkdncr@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

That and having to manually upgrade CUs. It just doesn’t scale. It’s easier for most people to buy a new machine.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 13 points 2 weeks ago

It's easier for most people to just continue using their current PC past the end of support.

[-] lengau@midwest.social 5 points 2 weeks ago

I'm grateful to Microsoft for Windows 11 providing me a bunch of free machines to stick in my basement and put Linux on.

[-] Guidy@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

ROFL no. I once knew someone who got offered an upgrade from whatever to Windows 10, only for it to fail half way through because their CPU was some weird corner case that the OS thought it supported but when it was time to boot... didn't.

Also if you want to talk e-waste, look no further than Chromebooks.

Windows 11 has problems, this is hardly one of them.

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this post was submitted on 29 May 2025
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