feddit.org defederated quokk.au for calling their mods zionists (self.fediverselore)

submitted 3 weeks ago by MummysLittleBloodSlut to c/fediverselore@lemmy.ca

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due to the previously communicated defamation campaign by quokk.au, which was later followed by defederation by them after we requested them to remove their censure, we have now defederated from quokk.au.

One of the triggers for the current debate is this post, which followed the removal of a comment comparing National Socialism with the current situation in Israel, which can be considered a trivialization of National Socialism. Such statements can, among other things, lead to imprisonment. Among other things, the post claimed that the removal had a Zionist motive, an accusation that should always be supported by appropriate evidence and prior to which it should be ruled out that there are alternative explanations.

We will not be removing every comment that goes even remotely in this direction, but we reserve the right to permanently ban users from feddit.org who make unfounded accusations, such as labeling our instance, admins, moderators, or other users as Nazis or Zionists, without substantial supporting arguments. This is especially the case when this is recurring behavior and not an isolated incident.

If this censure by quokk.au is not withdrawn in a timely manner, we will defederate quokk.au from our side for these unsubstantiated and untrue accusations.

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[-] Blaze@piefed.social 29 points 3 weeks ago

Comments for this post are disabled, as we don’t expect any constructive discourse here, and we don’t want to create another comment section for terrorism advocates, genocide deniers, holocaust trivializers etc. There are already plenty other posts where discussion can take place.

Not sure how to feel about this.

[-] MummysLittleBloodSlut 33 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I feel badly about it. Zionists are fascists, and the Nakba is like the Holocaust. People should be able to say that. They should also be able to say Hamas is not conducting a genocide (because they don't have enough guns to do what they want). I don't support terrorism but I do think we should be conducting targeted strikes against IDF military assets without involving civilians, and I think the terrorism advocacy is mostly coming from Zionists.

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[-] rustyfish@lemmy.world 22 points 3 weeks ago

Every time I feel like feddit.org is going into the right direction, shit like this pops up. Marvellous.

[-] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 3 weeks ago

It's an unbelievably stupid decision imo. Talk about tone deaf.

[-] griD@feddit.org 7 points 3 weeks ago

Just FYI: There are laws in DE concerning Holocaust denial, relativism etc. The subject is tricky to say the least. I understand the feddit.org mods don't want to find themselves in court because some edgelords went on a rampage. They are already cursed enough moderating ich_iel ;)

Personally, I feel the whole discussion regarding Israel/Gaza is extremely difficult in Germany, even at my Stammtisch. The underlying reason is obviously found in our history, though the consequences of that history are misunderstood. Never again means never again, I don't care who commits the atrocities.

[-] Blaze@piefed.social 6 points 3 weeks ago

Should Lemmy.world apply the same standards as they are hosted at Hetzner?

[-] Ledericas@lemm.ee 3 points 3 weeks ago

politics is starting to become problematic, they used similar message in why they "removed or banned comment"

[-] griD@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Honestly, I wouldn't know. Not a lawyer in international internet affairs :) Interesting question though.

[-] Blaze@piefed.social 10 points 3 weeks ago

That was the question raised by people when feddit.org came up with that policy. A lot of Lemmy instances are hosted at Hetzner, but feddit.org is the only one this policy.

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 18 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

The way it's worded, it makes it sound that anyone opposed to their POV is one of "terrorism advocates, genocide deniers, holocaust trivializers etc." I'm hoping it's just unfortunate wording.

[-] Microw@lemm.ee 7 points 3 weeks ago

Unfortunate wording, if you saw the comment sections on past posts on that drama you'd know the kind of people they mean with that

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

Israel is a terrorist state and those mods defend that

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[-] zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 3 weeks ago

So feddit.org is full of zionists, wanting to murder all living things in Gaza? Gotcha.

[-] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 3 weeks ago

Authoritarians can't handle being called out, make it harder to be called out.

Genocide is perfectly rational and normal, calling it out is a bad idea. No tought crime allowed when the government is aiding the moral and just murders.

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.org 19 points 3 weeks ago

feddit.org defederated quokk.au for calling their mods zionists

one of quokk.au's admins called a feddit's admin "absolute trash human being" and "nazi cunt". That seems to be the reason.

Apparently they felt so upset for being banned from feddit that they defederated their instance (quokk.au) from feddit.org altogether. Now feddit.org defederated back.

Honestly that admin just seems insulting and toxic. I'm glad that kind of stuff has no place on my instance.

[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 9 points 3 weeks ago

Isn't that synonymous with "Zionist"?

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

Trump been compared to hitler and people insult people defending the terrible person Trump is. Nobody righfully complain about, but when someone insult someone defending a genocide people like you start to appear

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

at no point did the feddit admins defend genocide.

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 11 points 3 weeks ago

What does it mean to censor the movement to sanction a genocidal state?

[-] SpicyColdFartChamber@lemm.ee 3 points 3 weeks ago

Sure the admin may be unhinged, but removing a post about making a distinction between anti-zionism and anti-semitism?

I got some translation from their post on it about how they can't tolerate "accusations" of being called zionists? What's wrong with accusations? Removing the comment is sufficient evidence for it.

Also there's something there about such discussions being precarious because it's against some german,swiss laws? Can someone who knows german explain it a little better? Because it seems like "We will not discuss this because we don't like this discussion"

[-] MummysLittleBloodSlut 6 points 3 weeks ago

Germany has laws against minimising the atrocities of the holocaust. The feddit.org admins have a personal opinion that likening the nakba to the holocaust minimises the holocaust, which would make it illegal.

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Israel use same methods as nazis and the holocust. Banning comparison minimize the genocide is gaza

Is advocating for palestinians right to resistance, condemning the ideology that created the whole conflicts, banning our only real option of boycott a minimization of the holocust?

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.org 4 points 3 weeks ago

removing a post about making a distinction between anti-zionism and anti-semitism?

They don't remove posts or comments that do that. I am quite active on feddit and the general consensus on that instance is pretty pro-palestine. The vast majority of anti-zionist posts do not get removed.

What they (sometimes) remove though is comparions between nazi-germany and Zionism. The admins on that instance argued that doing this may breach German laws, so they decided to remove some of the most notorious comments about that.

I got some translation from their post on it about how they can’t tolerate “accusations” of being called zionists? What’s wrong with accusations? Removing the comment is sufficient evidence for it.

They removed posts because they fear they may violate german law. Also, feddit admins did not defederate from quokk.au because of the accusations - it is because one of their admins harrassed a feddit admin (calling them Nazi scum, wished death upon them - see my above comment) - then defederated quokk.au from feddit because of "Zionism" (which is so dumb if you ask me) - and then feddit defederated quokk.au back

Also there’s something there about such discussions being precarious because it’s against some german,swiss laws?

Holocaust denial/inversion/relativization is something (for good reason) illegal in Germany. Neonazis have been doing this for a long time and obviously it needs to be illegal. When it comes to Israel's war crimes obviously there is more nuance to this but there are boundaries too. As a german leftist I can say that a lot of us are more careful when it comes to language around the issue. There is a balancing act we have to do and I wish people outside could respect that.

Because it seems like “We will not discuss this because we don’t like this discussion”

In all honesty, this is how I feel about it. I am pro-palestine in pretty much every regard, but I have limits with the language I use. I recognize Zionism as the result of the jewish struggle of the 19th and 20th century. It does not mean I like it or I see it as an ideology that can bring about peace in the region. It also does not mean I justify any of the crimes Israel's government is doing. But it does mean that I don't compare it to Nazism. I don't like this discussion because it leads nowhere. Invalidating/inverting/relativizing the jewish struggle does nothing for the Palestinians and I feel annoyed that so many internet leftists insist so much on doing that. If there is no space for nuance, I am not interested in discussion

[-] anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 3 weeks ago

I recognize Zionism as the result of the jewish struggle of the 19th and 20th century.

There's a sizeable difference between zionism being related to 19th and 20th century antisemitism and being a result from it.

The 19th and 20th century pogroms were gleefully used by zionists to justify their political project and anti-arab ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Comparing that political project to National Socialism is possibly the most appropriate comparison of any political movement since the holocaust, and far from hand-waiving this policy away as a regrettable legal restriction the mods at feddit.org seem quite keen on defending it as policy.

Holocaust denial/inversion/relativization is something (for good reason) illegal in Germany.

On the contrary, Holocaust exceptionalism prevents one from recognizing the severity and urgency of stopping genocides as they are happening. Nobody outside of Germany knew the scale of the Holocaust until long after it had actually ended - it would be self-defeating if we barred any discussion of genocidal political projects that draws too-close a comparison to the one we are most eager to prevent from happening again.

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

If you oppose palestinians right to armed resistance , oppose promoting boycott against a genocidal state and opposr calling out the ideology that caused the whole conflict. You are not a pro palestinian(anti colonialism) person

[-] SpicyColdFartChamber@lemm.ee 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Thank you for the answer. I guess it's understandable. Though the original comment in this post doesn't deny the existence of an Israeli state.

But it does mean that I don’t compare it to Nazism.

This isn't the same as calling someone you don't like a Nazi. But even then, the term Nazi, in this day and age, no longer just means people who idolize Hitler and hate on Jews. Its use has expanded to include all those who are willing to genocide another group of people and more.

And though I can see the need to separate the semantics within Germany itself, due to its history and laws, its supposed misappropriation is an irrelevant discussion at this stage. A lot of Israeli's are very openly and loudly advocating for the erasure of the Palestinian people, even children and innocent people. It's not even a joke, that they are using the same terminologies and tactics. It is impossible to not conflate them with Nazis.

This isn't to deny the Jewish struggle, of course, this is to say that calling the Israeli government and stooges Nazis isn't an invalidation of the Jewish struggle. These people are, save for a time machine, literal Nazis (the IDF, the Israeli government and anyone advocating for the erasure of Palestinians).

You are arguing semantics when we are long past that.

Even then, it's a flimsy argument. It just feels like another measure to maintain a semblance of historical guilt by the government, not an actual effort to help the Jewish people. If you can show me where "misusing" the label Nazi is worse for the Jewish people and their struggles, than the literal genocide of the Palestinian people by a Jewish state, I'll change my mind.

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

People forget that the fundation of nazizm is the aryan pseudo race. While jews was for them the ultimate enemy of the aryan race, nazis killed other groups people with handicaps, homosexuals and slaves and poles

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[-] Blaze@piefed.social 3 points 3 weeks ago

Should Lemmy.world apply the same standards as they are hosted at Hetzner?

[-] nichtsowichtig@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

I am too much of an anarchist to care about laws, but I believe any instance should moderate against hatred and strive for a healthy environment where constructive discourse is encouraged and unconstructive/toxic discourse is mitigated. That counts for racism, homophobia, and also for antisemitism or dehumanization of Palestinians.

Now, there are difficult questions about moderation that I am glad I don't have to answer. But I can confidently say that the language that quokk.au admin used has no place in a healthy online community and it is fair it's banned from it.

[-] Blaze@piefed.social 7 points 3 weeks ago

Doesn't really answer my question.

If there is a legal obligation in Germany to have a policy similar to what feddit.org has, Lemmy.world and other instances using Hetzner should implement it.

If not, then they shouldn't, and then feddit.org shouldn't use the legal argument.

Now it's kind of an ambiguous situation where it's not clear what the legal obligation actually is.

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[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

due to the previously communicated defamation campaign by quokk.au, which was later followed by defederation by them after we requested them to remove their censure, we have now defederated from quokk.au.

I think it's reasonable and should be considered the default approach to defederate instances that have defederated with you. I'm not trying to sound like I'm supporting ~~allegedly~~ Zionist admins ~~(and I'm only saying allegedly because I haven't read the full context yet)~~. I would suggest changing the title to say that quokk.au defederated over the Zionism rather than feddit defederated over it if quokk.au was the first to defederate of the pair.

One sided federation causing strange issues that may be confusing to users.

Also fuck Zionists and Nazis in case this sounds too defensive.

Edit: while I understand feddit admins' position and not wanting to get into legal trouble, that doesn't magically absolve them of the term Zionist. I think it's fair to call it Zionism. The legal scenario they're concerned about, if it happened, would be Zionist.

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

Do the admins really believe that thr government with arrest an random person managing a community in a niche social media?

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Either they're Zionist and lying as a cover, or they do believe it and so are unwilling to resist such a far fetched miniscule possiblity that they're doing the Zionists work for them. So yeah, Zionist is fair criticism.

[-] jaybone@lemmy.zip 9 points 3 weeks ago

Love me some fediverse drama. Calling mods nazis is some classic internet stuff. But I can’t say I know much about these instances.

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this post was submitted on 27 May 2025

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